Comments on: God, Dawkins and tragic humanism http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2009/06/god-dawkins-and-tragic-humanism/ The official Derren Brown Blog Mon, 07 May 2012 09:24:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: roz http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2009/06/god-dawkins-and-tragic-humanism/#comment-13111 roz Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:18:00 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=2734#comment-13111 epynephrin, check out a marlon brando movie (really!) called "burn!", which does a good job of illustrating this phenom. epynephrin, check out a marlon brando movie (really!) called “burn!”, which does a good job of illustrating this phenom.

]]> By: Sef http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2009/06/god-dawkins-and-tragic-humanism/#comment-12682 Sef Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:50:17 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=2734#comment-12682 "All well and good, but the central principal underlying any religion is a belief in the existence of a god or gods." Except, of course, Buddhism. ;) There are also a few entirely on ancestor worship too - especially in Africa, Papua New Guinea and Native America. I respect athiesm as a personal belief founded on all kinds of sources (not just Mr Science 2009 :) - Dawkins - but all the way back to Diagoras of Melos and Epicurus). Yet I find some of the vociferous anti-religiousness to be just as tiresome and self-important as pro-religion. But then I hate being told how to think by anyone. Fortunately, I have very good personal experiences with both religion and athiesm so sometimes it is difficult to reconcile the entirely negative view some people have of either. I guess we are all personally influenced in these matters. It's an emotive debate. I don't mind Eagleton but I find him a bit dry and some of his once-Marxist ideals don't fit with my world view. Still maybe I'll check it out once I've done with this Jilly Cooper here LOL. “All well and good, but the central principal underlying any religion is a belief in the existence of a god or gods.”

Except, of course, Buddhism. ;) There are also a few entirely on ancestor worship too – especially in Africa, Papua New Guinea and Native America.

I respect athiesm as a personal belief founded on all kinds of sources (not just Mr Science 2009 :) – Dawkins – but all the way back to Diagoras of Melos and Epicurus). Yet I find some of the vociferous anti-religiousness to be just as tiresome and self-important as pro-religion. But then I hate being told how to think by anyone.

Fortunately, I have very good personal experiences with both religion and athiesm so sometimes it is difficult to reconcile the entirely negative view some people have of either. I guess we are all personally influenced in these matters. It’s an emotive debate.

I don’t mind Eagleton but I find him a bit dry and some of his once-Marxist ideals don’t fit with my world view. Still maybe I’ll check it out once I’ve done with this Jilly Cooper here LOL.

]]> By: KatM http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2009/06/god-dawkins-and-tragic-humanism/#comment-12615 KatM Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:57:56 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=2734#comment-12615 Hmmm, seems I threw the cat among the pigeons. We are all coloured by our own experiences and I apologise if my earlier comment offended. My personal experience is one of growing up in a household where I was expected to blindly accept the religion I was brought up in. When I hit teenage years and started to question what I was being taught I was met with an attitude of no discussion allowed - it was right, I was wrong. It took me a long time and a lot of courage to escape and stand up for what I think to be correct. An example of how much this affected me is the fact that my first child was baptised to avoid parental disapproval whereas my second is not. I was advised in no uncertain terms that my choice was wrong. Having said all that I do recognise that most of the morals that I live by are seen as being Christian. Whether they originated from Christianity is debatable as outlined by Dawkins in The God Delusion. The morals of society undergo continuous evolution and this is demonstrated by the fact that, in the UK at least, it is no longer the norm to get married before you have children. Senior religious figures would no doubt put that down to loss of faith. Here is a great example of someone who did not question the religious beliefs they were brought up with and then one day the blinkers slipped to reveal a different view of the world: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/athletics/article1991114.ece Hmmm, seems I threw the cat among the pigeons. We are all coloured by our own experiences and I apologise if my earlier comment offended. My personal experience is one of growing up in a household where I was expected to blindly accept the religion I was brought up in. When I hit teenage years and started to question what I was being taught I was met with an attitude of no discussion allowed – it was right, I was wrong. It took me a long time and a lot of courage to escape and stand up for what I think to be correct. An example of how much this affected me is the fact that my first child was baptised to avoid parental disapproval whereas my second is not. I was advised in no uncertain terms that my choice was wrong.

Having said all that I do recognise that most of the morals that I live by are seen as being Christian. Whether they originated from Christianity is debatable as outlined by Dawkins in The God Delusion. The morals of society undergo continuous evolution and this is demonstrated by the fact that, in the UK at least, it is no longer the norm to get married before you have children. Senior religious figures would no doubt put that down to loss of faith.

Here is a great example of someone who did not question the religious beliefs they were brought up with and then one day the blinkers slipped to reveal a different view of the world: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/athletics/article1991114.ece

]]> By: ScreamingGreenConure http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2009/06/god-dawkins-and-tragic-humanism/#comment-12599 ScreamingGreenConure Wed, 17 Jun 2009 09:59:01 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=2734#comment-12599 Diana: www.lucifereffect.com Diana:
http://www.lucifereffect.com

]]> By: Hairn Styles http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2009/06/god-dawkins-and-tragic-humanism/#comment-12597 Hairn Styles Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:13:49 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=2734#comment-12597 Dawkins has some very valid and interesting points. Fascinating to listen to. Dawkins has some very valid and interesting points. Fascinating to listen to.

]]> By: Diana http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2009/06/god-dawkins-and-tragic-humanism/#comment-12593 Diana Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:43:10 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=2734#comment-12593 I llike that Phillis pointed out that Jesus asks us to strive for the best, for love, forgiveness,helping those in need. and yet in history Christianity and well as other religions have been known for perpetrating appalling crimes. I truly think that the people that were responsible for those crimes were pursing thier own political agendas, in the name of religion. When it was really a matter of power and influence, and corruption of the human heart. There are some, dare I say, really evil people out there. People who wouldn't think twice at raping a 1 yr old child, or murdering a complete family for the sake of it. It's something that disturbs me. What is it in the human heart that allows for such corruption and desolation? I llike that Phillis pointed out that Jesus asks us to strive for the best, for love, forgiveness,helping those in need. and yet in history Christianity and well as other religions have been known for perpetrating appalling crimes.

I truly think that the people that were responsible for those crimes were pursing thier own political agendas, in the name of religion. When it was really a matter of power and influence, and corruption of the human heart.

There are some, dare I say, really evil people out there. People who wouldn’t think twice at raping a 1 yr old child, or murdering a complete family for the sake of it. It’s something that disturbs me.

What is it in the human heart that allows for such corruption and desolation?

]]> By: ReliegiousMarie http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2009/06/god-dawkins-and-tragic-humanism/#comment-12591 ReliegiousMarie Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:44:23 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=2734#comment-12591 @SGC...yes, i think youre absolutely right there...and frankly, that (questioning others and yourself to compare it with your own values) is what i meant with ´do you question yourself enough´...as i think questioning: is a continuing proces of comparing and fitting...and being able to live with it yourself...respecting other views so in that sense it stays quite simple... It becomes a problem when other views start to influence your personal/sphere too much...or become a threat even...that´s when a clash of will occures ...and on larger scale war...That risk, i am afraid, will never ever entirely leave us all...or you would have to find the answer to: `how can we get the entire human race on the same concious level´...not going to happen? @SGC…yes, i think youre absolutely right there…and frankly, that (questioning others and yourself to compare it with your own values) is what i meant with ´do you question yourself enough´…as i think questioning: is a continuing proces of comparing and fitting…and being able to live with it yourself…respecting other views

so in that sense it stays quite simple…

It becomes a problem when other views start to influence your personal/sphere too much…or become a threat even…that´s when a clash of will occures …and on larger scale war…That risk, i am afraid, will never ever entirely leave us all…or you would have to find the answer to: `how can we get the entire human race on the same concious level´…not going to happen?

]]> By: Ms G http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2009/06/god-dawkins-and-tragic-humanism/#comment-12582 Ms G Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:08:20 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=2734#comment-12582 Plato ... never read him and will not read him. Your own brain can come up with all the same things all by yourself .. if only you would take time to ponder upon things. Taking it in from someone else is not the same. It will not become yours down there ... although you might remember once .. what you read and what you sort of did not get completely ... you finally see it ... via own experience down there ... There\'s two in us who learn and read things ... one is a bit slower ... but that\'s the one that is the most important ... that\'s you ... the other one is the one that is quite often the intermediair with the outside world. Plato … never read him and will not read him. Your own brain can come up with all the same things all by yourself .. if only you would take time to ponder upon things. Taking it in from someone else is not the same. It will not become yours down there … although you might remember once .. what you read and what you sort of did not get completely … you finally see it … via own experience down there … There\’s two in us who learn and read things … one is a bit slower … but that\’s the one that is the most important … that\’s you … the other one is the one that is quite often the intermediair with the outside world.

]]> By: ScreamingGreenConure http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2009/06/god-dawkins-and-tragic-humanism/#comment-12573 ScreamingGreenConure Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:07:05 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=2734#comment-12573 I can appreciate what you mean about becoming an atheist after questioning things, but implying that religious people are all blinkered and scared is part of the problem that both sides have with communication. I've heard religious people say that atheists are close-minded and blind, and I find it really upsetting and insulting. It's also unfair to say that they're scared of people who have "thought about things rather than blindly accepted," because I don't think a religious person necessarily HAS blindly accepted everything without thinking. I think they thought wrongly, obviously, or I wouldn't be disagreeing with them, but it's not fair to imply that they haven't thought at all. I can appreciate what you mean about becoming an atheist after questioning things, but implying that religious people are all blinkered and scared is part of the problem that both sides have with communication. I’ve heard religious people say that atheists are close-minded and blind, and I find it really upsetting and insulting. It’s also unfair to say that they’re scared of people who have “thought about things rather than blindly accepted,” because I don’t think a religious person necessarily HAS blindly accepted everything without thinking. I think they thought wrongly, obviously, or I wouldn’t be disagreeing with them, but it’s not fair to imply that they haven’t thought at all.

]]> By: KatM http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2009/06/god-dawkins-and-tragic-humanism/#comment-12569 KatM Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:05:42 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=2734#comment-12569 I became an atheist through thinking for myself, by challenging what I had been taught from birth and by studying the contradictions in the world around me. I find it amazing that there are some in society who are seemingly scared by people who have thought about things rather than blindly accepted a faith. Surely those who contemplate life and the world we live in without being blinkered by a religious outlook are exactly the sort of people who are going to value and make the best of this one life we have. I became an atheist through thinking for myself, by challenging what I had been taught from birth and by studying the contradictions in the world around me. I find it amazing that there are some in society who are seemingly scared by people who have thought about things rather than blindly accepted a faith. Surely those who contemplate life and the world we live in without being blinkered by a religious outlook are exactly the sort of people who are going to value and make the best of this one life we have.

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