Sandra Davis – High Priestess at the Crystal Cauldron – had reserved Our Lady’s Social Club in Shaw Heath, Stockport for her Pagan group’s Annual Witches’ Ball. But when she rang to make payment arrangements she was told the event could not be held there and – despite already having printed tickets – another venue must be found. The Diocese of Shrewsbury have since confirmed witches are not ‘compatible with the Catholic ethos’.
Sandra, 61, said: “I’m appalled. ”My congregation is shocked that in this day and age there can be such religious discrimination. ”We’re normal people who follow an earth-based religion and want to enjoy ourselves. ”We thought we were bridging the gap with other religions but misconceptions still exist, like we sacrifice animals. ”Does the church check everyone’s beliefs before allowing them in the club? ”Now we need another venue for at least 100 people with a stage for entertainment.
better give them that space, you dont want to end up with a hex being placed on you.
Seeing as Wiccans and Catholics have some kind of similar ideas and traditions, I’d think they’d be totally compatable with each other.
Everyone has the wrong idea about Pagans, most people seem to think they’re evil or have some link to satanism which completely wrong!
They’re very similar to Wiccans, who believe in nature, and doing no harm – hardly evil! And they deserve as much respect as any other religion.
a case of the cauldron calling the kettle black.
lovin thier costumes.
That’s probably why it was called our lady’s social club. I already wondered what lady etc …
Oh well, I myself would not book myself an evening in that club. I still find it kinda strange when churches are being used for parties and such. For the same reason I would not hold a church ceremony in a hip and trendy discotheque or something like that. Not that it would really disturb the place itself or such, but some things just have their steady locations. Nothing wroing with that if that is an option. Some communities will have to do with one location for everything. We’re spoiled.
Bet that hall is state-subsidised as well.
I hope you were joking when you said: “they’d be totally compatable with each other.”
Also I completely agree that everyone has the wrong idea about Pagans as they simply celebrate/worship/respect nature – as opposed to the Catholics who believe a god created it all! [I know which option sounds more logical to me]. However the catholic church branded them as devil worshippers and that concept was built into modern cultures/traditions/stories etc.
This is like some christians holding their easter ceremony in a mosque…what reaction did they expect.
Although I don’t really get Witcraft – I understand Pagans to be as Ben described above and also know that the The Church created the elaborate concept of devil worship and then, used the persecution of it to wipe out dissent, subordinate the individual to authoritarian control, and openly denigrate women through the witch hunts killing hundreds of thousands of free-thinking women (if not more- some say millions).
Note: The witch hunts were an eruption of Christianity’s vilification of women, “the weaker vessel,” in St. Peter’s words. The second century St. Clement of Alexandria wrote: “Every woman should be filled with shame by the thought that she is a woman.” The Church father Tertullian explained why women deserve their status as despised and inferior human beings:
“And do you not know that you are an Eve? The sentence of God on this sex of yours lives in this age: the guilt must of necessity live too. You are the devil’s gateway: you are the unsealer of that tree: you are the first deserter of the divine law: you are she who persuaded him whom the devil was not valiant enough to attack. You destroyed so easily God’s image, man. On account of your desert that is, death even the Son of God had to die.” …. etc.
So where does modern witchcraft come from?
So where does modern witchcraft come from?
It was made up in the early twentieth century. Adherents don\’t like it if you point out their religion is younger than Mormonism and only slightly older than scientology.
As i see it….Before christianity (patriarchal system) there was…the matriarchal system more based on women in where wicca and paganism existed and among their worshipping was a God `Pan` and the female goddess worshipped as Ishtar….both vertility deity´s…
Vertility has ofcourse everything to do with sex and procreation and Love….seriously, for anyone who has never done this before, go find a picture of the god Pan´…who does he exactly look like nowadays? yes, as the evil Satan or Devil…huh?
So yes, how could people not be confused and scared as wicca and paganism is ´all about the devil´…only to pagans it is still the nature-vertility god Pan, same as it was before ´the coup´ the christianity…totally ´different meaning´ about the ´same diety´s´….
pff…Beliefs are pretty tiring in that sense…people keep fighting over n over again instead of understanding the dynamics behind ´story-name and meaning-coups´…
Oh ye Holy, gimme All the Power and rulership of all the money in the world, bah!
They should of hired the Legion club and not the Catholic club.
“I was going to choose the synagogue for our suckling pig sacrifice to Gaia’s nuturing bosom but they wouldn’t let us TEH MEANIES”.
Totally thick. But then there would be no Daily Telegraph to take pictures of the Harry Potter costumes. Or maybe they wanted a priest nearby in case the spirits got out of hand.
And I don’t just mean the vodka.
*oh my sides*
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Which were these then? To what time period are you refering too? Pardon the pun, but having studied medieval history to some depth, a large percentage of accusers were indeed women and they targetted other women. The Salem witch trials – as including several men killed too. The idea that it was men vs. women is a misconception.
Witchcraft trials and ‘outbreaks’ usually happened in a time of great social fear, disease and unrest. Some places had many trials whilst others had hardly any (like Ireland). Often it was a way to exact revenge on a rival or neighbour for a feared slight. Magic was a way to make sense of the world and provided a simple if erroneous And no need to be revisionist and patronising about the past – people actually believed a lot of it. Hindsight with scientific advancement is 20/20 naturally.
Also, people in Medieval times believed in balance and not coincidence. As with the ‘four humours’ the idea that cause and effect controlled the Universe was shared by most people. Even incredibly learned people like Rabbi Maimonides felt that “giveth and taketh” was the way of the world even though he was the first person to really question the validity of astrology. Derren has done tons of stuff on ’cause and effect’ and the idea that random things have a connection when they don’t. Your neighbour curses you, you hurt you arm the next day – THEY DID IT.
In the UK – the only actual crime was Maleficium – causing harm by magic. Not actually being a witch in itself wasn’t a crime. Hence the trials such as the North Berwick witch trials required evidence for prosecution as with other capital crimes.
Personally I don’t care what people believe as long as it does no harm to me or wider society. Live and let live. Never rub another mans rhubarb.
My quote didn’t come up – sorry, getting used to things. Oops!
Religious Discrimination is an idiotic response considering it’s a Covern looking for use of Church property. Completely irrespective of what the Covern does or believes themselves to represent, it’s private property to allocate as and how the Church owning it sees fit. If it were a Government or public building it would be another matter. On the other hand it’s really immature and exceptionally rude of the Church body to agree to the use for the booking, change mind and not inform the Covern until they get a phonecall asking about payment.
The Catholics stole the Pagan religion and turned it into Christianity. Why on Earth would Christians paint Easter eggs, dance round a May pole or celebrate Santa. I have never seen any references to this in the bible! I think thay should donate the space for free, seeing as they committed the mortal sin of theft!
shouldn’t they be doing that outside, anyway?
she’s just noticing this?? extremely sheltered witch!