Doctors are demanding that NHS staff be given a right to discuss spiritual issues with patients as well as being allowed to offer to pray for them. Medics will tell the British Medical Association conference this week that staff should not be disciplined as long as they handle the issue sensitively.
The doctors said recent cases where health workers had got into trouble were making people fearful. But atheists said it was wrong to mix religion and health care. The doctors, who are behind the motion being discussed at the Liverpool conference, are unhappy about the guidance that has been issued.
The General Medical Council code suggests that discussing religion can be part of care provided to patients – as long as the individual’s wishes are respected. But at the start of this year the Department of Health issued guidance warning about proselytising. It said that discussing religion could be interpreted as an attempt to convert which could be construed as a form of harassment.
It comes as NHS trusts have taken a hard-line in a number of recent cases. Last year community nurse Caroline Petrie was suspended by North Somerset NHS Trust after offering to pray for a patient, although the 45-year-old was later allowed to return to work. And only last week a Gloucestershire nurse said she had left her job at a local hospital after being told she could not wear a crucifix – although the hospital said it was because of health and safety rules, not religion.
Oh, come on! That’s a bit of a misleading headline!
It’s not that doctors want to bring the church into the NHS, they just want to avoid situations where health workers are punished for discussing religious matters with a willing patient.
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Interesting post savage mike … ehehe …twitter is still not that simple huh?
Maybe they can put a little card at a patients bed … whether they want to have discussion about religion or such. Some def. will not want to be bother with religion when sick, maybe once when still healthy. Others, even atheist, might not always dislike it, although they may enter it for a reason which the NHS staff member did not want .. So NHS staff needs to think about these things as well I think . Why, when and to whom?
Normally these things never lead to problems unless someone from NHS goes nuts on the topic or such … becomes a annoying bug on the bedside … which we normally can do without.
Can’t believe that these things are an issue … media … Oh, my god … BT is in favor of this media stuff … their blog is running on this stuff sometimes ……… or?
Imagine the scene, your in your doctor’s office and they tell you that you have something serious but then offer to pray for you.
I would be quite livid! I’m an athiest, so I personally wouldn’t take anything good from that, mentally or physically. I’m not easily angerd but I would be close to shouting at them, not to waste their time praying but to do something that will help. The intention is a good one but still offensive and may leave non-believing patients feeling very dismayed.
Most NHS trust hospitals have religious representatives available round the clock on call. I think its more a shame the NHS pay for these rather then the church themselves There was an article a few weeks about it in the Metro. .
Cheers
Rob
Wearing a crucifix to work is only a health and safety issue if you run with it in your mouth OR it’s the same size as the jesus one he got done in on.
Isn’t the proper guideline here, as in most situations, “just don’t be an asshole”? I wouldn’t want to talk religion with my doctor and if she brought it up I’d tell her so and hope that would be the end of it. But I have family members who would appreciate an offer of a prayer. It would be nice if respect didn’t require legal enforcement.
Aha …. all your minds are belong to us is a broken phrase I read ….
Those who were not familiar with this as well, like me, but did not bother
to look it up sofar either (like me):
Quote wikipedia
All your base are belong to us” (often shortened to “All Your Base”, “AYBABTU”, or simply “AYB”) is a broken English phrase that was central to an Internet phenomenon, or meme, in 2000-2002, with the spread of a Flash animation that depicted the slogan. The text is taken from the opening cut scene of the 1991 European Sega Mega Drive version of the video game Zero Wing,[1] a Japanese video game by Toaplan which was poorly translated. It was popularized by the Something Awful message forums.[2] The line Captain: For great justice is often replicated as a secondary meme, with the phrase for great justice applied to an ordinary or inappropriate action.
The previous before the announcing of the new blog layout was also kinda broken … so it might be a cause of a slightly slushed brain as well …. who knows … when Derren is around …
I would rather die a horrible death that have that god crap rammed down my throatt whilst in hospital!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BellaFiga: Well, crucifixes tend to not hover in the air or be stuck to the wearer’s skin, which leads to what I think is the actual health and safety issue: The chain they’re attached to. Any necklace, regardless of what’s dangling from it, can be a hazard in an environment where it can get caught on or entangled in equipment. If they kept their cross charm in a pocket of their work uniform, I doubt there’d be much of a problem, actually.
I’m all atheististic and largely dissaproving of all of the religion in public sector stuff, that said, if knowing you are being prayed for demonstrably shows improved recovery rates for the religious (as some kind of placebo or whatever) then pray away, its just getting the balance between a religious presence and forcing religion on others that don’t want/ need it.
For example – I don’t know if this is still the case but women in Ireland who wanted to have their tubes tied were sent off to a scolding by the priest and were often refused permission by doctors on religious ground, and some doctors here will refuse contraception to unmarried women (though they aren’t really supposed to get away with this) – this is all religion overstepping its boundaries in the health sector whereas old lady lying in bed after her hip operation feeling a little better for a visit from a priest or nun and a bit of praying, I don’t think I can really object to that.
I pretty much agree with Siobhan… I think that if it’s a choice or if it’s requested that’s all well and good, though I wouldn’t necessarily want someone praying by my deathbed as I don’t personally subscribe. If they wish to pray in their own time, that’s not a problem, it doesn’t concern me either way as I simply don’t believe in the power of prayer.
I don’t think it should be a sackable offence to offer prayers, but the wishes of the patient should always come first.
I’ve noticed some clinics now ask what religion you are from the moment you sign up to avoid culture clashes later, and ‘atheist’ is one of the options.
@ flapjack, a friend of mine was in hospital recently and was asked her religion, when she said atheist the nurse looked slightly bemused and said, ‘Oh, I’ll just put down Catholic then’ – we have some serious catching up to do!!
@Siobhan:
I’m all atheististic and largely dissaproving of all of the religion in public sector stuff, that said, if knowing you are being prayed for demonstrably shows improved recovery rates for the religious (as some kind of placebo or whatever) then pray away,
Actually, the exact opposite has been demonstrated in studies:
http://dermatology.jwatch.org/cgi/content/citation/2006/523/7
Abstract: “The prayers of strangers didn’t lower patients’ risk for complications after heart surgery; knowledge of such prayers actually increased risk.” (emphasis added)
@ Kaz, okay, but that’s just one study (and one citation from the entire study at that)… you’ll find numerous studies saying that prayer IS helpful (some which are fundementally flawed in terms of methadology to be fair) – within these (when some ‘evidence’ is found fopr the successfullness of prayer) I think that it could often be the result of placebo effect…
Also, is this the study where people were told that strangers were praying for them? I have some memory of the researchers saying that the finding could be put down to the fact that people may have become worried becasue they knew that strangers were parying for them (“I’m that sick”!!) – this would be a slightly different set of circumstances…
(Was there something on this blog around this before??)