A priest from North Yorkshire has advised his congregation to shoplift if they find themselves in hard times. Father Tim Jones, the parish priest of St Lawrence and St Hilda in York, said people should steal from big chains rather than small businesses.
He said society’s attitude to those in need “leaves some people little option but crime”. However the Archdeacon of York said: “The Church of England does not advise anyone to shoplift”. North Yorkshire Police described the sermon as “highly irresponsible”.
Speaking to his congregation on Sunday, Father Jones said: “My advice, as a Christian priest, is to shoplift. “I do not offer such advice because I think that stealing is a good thing, or because I think it is harmless, for it is neither.
“I would ask that they do not steal from small, family businesses, but from national businesses, knowing that the costs are ultimately passed on to the rest of us in the form of higher prices.
BBC (via Richard Wiseman)
He might be a priest but…i would say the same in the same context…if you don´t agree you might not understand the context, either that, or you never experienced bureaucracy and poverty´ up close…
I think it possibly one of my favourite stories of 2009. It sums up the hypocracy of certin members of the clergy. However I actually like Father Jones since he’s made a fairly valid point using this hypocracy and then gone on national TV and stood by his point. Many others would have gone straight onto the BBC and sounded off that what he’d said was taken out of context.
If they were that broke that they needed to steal food because they could not get any help from anyone, I would have to agree with the father Tim Jones. Everyone should have enough to eat.
One of the things they show you early in social work training is that all things are relative to the situations in which people find themselves. The law, however, tends to be blind to this and in some cases treats the wealthy much more leniently than the poor.
Sure, stealing is wrong. But as a last resort in some circumstances it can be the only alternative.
I think he said “Whilst I do not advise you steal at certain times given the choice of shoplifting and prostitution, to shoplift is the lesser of two evils”. And he clarified his sermon by saying that some of his congregation are so poor that they have no choice but to either die or shoplift or sell themselves in order to survive. I dont think his comments are wrong or yet another Christian nonsense statement. I think its a reflection of the times we live in. He was speaking from a theological point of view in that his interpretation of the word of God is that God would look on stealing if in dire need as more acceptable than selling yourself to get money. And I think he was in effect slyly perhaps trying to help those in need by making a moral choice on their behalf. In the same instance he protects them from the dangers of prostitution.
When a person is left broke, destitute and hungry because of their inability to compete and societies failure to recognise that lack ability and make contingency to assist those people, then society as a whole has stolen that persons ability to survive within societies rules. Every person is born with the right to forage for the staples of survival, society steals that right via declared ownership of all methods of survival. People are not stealing, they are simply foraging in order to survive, society is the one stealing from them, by denying that basic survival opportunity. There is nothing wrong with making non violent efforts to survive in a society that is indifferent to your survival.
It is heartwarming to know that the debate about this issue on the DB blog is so considered and understanding. On some comments threads about this issue, the overwheming feeling is not very christmassy at all. In this country we are rebuilding the aristocracy with management consultants and financial advisers and hedge fund managers. Orchestrated theft on a grand scale using complex financial instruments. Supporting the children of the rich to be the next gen of leaders. We need to understand the long-term effects of low pay and the loss of local industries and jobs. Why should their children suffer? Why should the long-term unemployed be demonised? Shoplifting is a way of life for some out of necessity. It takes courage, believe it or not. It is also very dehumanising. I know who I blame for their actions. It is not the poor.
Christianity often glorifies poverty as a state of humility:
‘the meek shall inherit the earth’:
‘It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle (a gateway in Jerusalem , BTW) than for a rich man to enter heaven’:
these are platitudes to stop the poor from revolting and to keep the rich happy in their beds.
It is good that someone took Christ’s original message, which was that anyone who hoards or manipulates wealth was a thief, stealing from their brothers in society. They are the true thieves.
Those who steal out of necessity are not sinners, acc. to Jesus.
I am not a Christian at all – more of an atheist, really, with some funny spiritual fantasies. However, the ethical guidance of the ancients does sometimes have worth. Profit is also forbidden in Islam… not that you would know, looking at Dubai …
i’m curious as to whether he’s telling the congregation they cant count on any help from the church? and if not, what good is it?
How about steal the riches in Churches?
Also funny that most poor people seem to find enough money to smoke and drink.
(I’ll get into my bunker now!)
Most of us probably would, if we had no other choices left. I think most shoplifters are not people in need though, far from that most of the time.
Maybe if the church sold off some of its prime real estate and hand it out to the more worse off from there congregation. I was under the misguided belief that the church leaders should be above creating a crime wave. Can this be used as a defence in court? Can we expect the bigger business to accept this? Maybe this doofus clergy should read the bible. (I have, and it’ starts OK but then gets a bit rubbish)
I love this story! It really brought me some Christmas cheer today. Good for him – he said if you have to steal then do it from a big supermarket and not a local small business and on no account do a burglary as that hurts people. He said that by acknowledging that people do this he can provide some moral guidance on it. Fab! God bless yer father Tim, I’ll slip a pack of mince pies under me jacket for you. x
I’m surprised that people commenting here agree with the priest it is better to steal.
Would it not be a much, much more f**king Christian thing to do, for the church to help the needy?! Is that not what they are for? I didn’t see him jumping at the chance to be a good Christian.
No, no, no of course not
Christian church rational;
“just keep giving your loose change to the church on Sunday, but, oh, don’t expect this to come back and help you in your time of need. This goes straight to the Vatican, those gold thrones don’t polish themselves you know!!! …. If you’re in need of help, matey, go and rob some shops … god be with you my son”
I’ll admit that when this was on the news this morning, I was in the ‘what the hell is he saying?’ camp, but having read some of the comments on here and the report above, I can see, perhaps, where he was coming from in all this. Maybe some of us are quick to judge and need to view the bigger picture at times.
LC x
If you are so poor that you need to steal food why not go to your nearest church & ask them for food – see how far that gets you !
When I was homeless I tried to sleep in a church doorway & the vicar threw a bucket of water over me. Fine upstanding christian that he was !
Woolies was a big multinational company & where is that now ?
Maybe if less people had nicked stuff & bought it instead it would still be on our high streets !
My philosophy – If you can\’t buy it nick it, if you can\’t bring youself to nick it you don\’t need it.
Shouldn’t the vicar instead of asked those in the congregation who COULD spare a few dimes to contribute in order to aid those who might otherwise need to resort to desperate measures to survive?
I’ve been poor. I’ve had to go to food banks to get food. I’ve NEVER (and I pride myself on this) resorted to stealing. There are homeless shelters, street missions, food banks etc to help those in need.
The owners of large stores may be multi-millionaires now but they (probably) clawed their way to the top with hard work and business savvy. Is it right to steal from them because they have better business acumen than the rest of us?
David D says:
December 22, 2009 at 1:18 pm
How about steal the riches in Churches?
Also funny that most poor people seem to find enough money to smoke and drink.
(I’ll get into my bunker now!)
I was about to go “FFS” – but then saw the bunker comment. In our town we have “cider george”. The best and most gentle town drunk ever. He asked my mate the vicar if he could stash his street bedding in a quiet corner of the church. Its against church policy btw but my mate said it would be fine. The church helpers, helped georges bedding and clothes onto the rubbish tip though. The vicar went apeshit at them. So the next time it happened that george left his clothes and bedding, the scum did the same thing but this time threw it where the vicar could not find it. Despite going twice as apeshit no one would own up. Very Christian eh.
I agree with the priest. If, for whatever reason a person finds themselves or their family short on food, and can’t find legitmate sources of help (charities, welfare, family and friends) then shoplifting is the least harmful criminal method of obtaining the items needed for survival.
If my family’s starving some winter, and I can’t hel any other way, i’ll shed no tears over it.
You can be sorry later, with the luxury of food in your belly and somewhere warm to sleep.
I remember from my Christian schooldays that God would provide us with everything we needed when we needed it the most! What went wrong with Christianity that you now need to steel (yet on the stone tablets it says: thou shalt not steal).
I am now so confused!!!
Now I know why I became an atheist everything’s so clear now!