“At 10:23am on January 30th, more than three hundred homeopathy sceptics nationwide will be taking part in a mass homeopathic ‘overdose’ in protest at Boots’ continued endorsement and sale of homeopathic remedies, and to raise public awareness about the fact that homeopathic remedies have nothing in them.
Homeopathy is an unscientific and absurd pseudoscience, yet it persists today as an accepted complementary medicine.
Ask many people what they think homeopathy is, and you’ll be told “it’s herbal medicine” or “it’s all-natural”. Few realise that it’s been proven not to work; even fewer know it involves substances so dilute that there’s nothing left in them. Homeopathy takes advantage of this uncertainty to sit alongside real, proven medicines on the shelves of our major pharmacies.
Sceptics and consumer rights activists will publicly swallow an entire bottle of homeopathic ‘pillules’ to demonstrate that these ‘remedies’, prepared according to a long-discredited 18th century ritual, are nothing but sugar pills.
The protest will raise public awareness about the reality of homeopathy, and put further pressure on Boots to live up to its responsibilites as the ‘scientist on the high street’ and stop selling treatments which do not work.”
Read more at 1023.org.uk
There’s also a Facebook Group and Twitter account you can join.
ha, oh that’s brilliant!
Turn up early to avoid being stuck in a queue at the tills. :-p
Seriously though, it’s a really good idea.
Boy, I sure hope the placebo effect doesn’t kick in. Could be messy.
I completely agree that these remedies are simply sugar pills and that an overdose will do nothing more than give you a sugar energy boost.
I also object to companies making mllions of pounds in profit peddaling such wares.
That said, it is important to note that for those
who believe in homeopathic medicine there is a good chance taking some WILL make them better.
Why? The good old placebo effect. The author
of the fantastic book ‘Bad Science’ has a phenomenal chapter on this very topic and states that the very ritual often invved with going to buy homeopathic remedies is often enough to cure someone. And this naturally amplifies their false beliefs.
In summary, people are not necessarily lying when they say homeopathic potions are effective. They are simply misguided about WHY they are working.
Fingers crossed they don’t pick up the wrong bottle. That could get pretty embarrassing.
What about campaigning for some of the ‘proven medicines’ which either don’t work or cause horrendous side effects; or illustrating that one-size-fits-all doses are not appropriate; or that exercise and good nutrition are often the answer to depression instead of doling out these ‘proven medicines’ to everyone who feels a bit blue. That would REALLY be worth all the effort.
Watching the brilliant film Creation last night (the one about Charles Darwin) it showed Charles and his daughter undergoing ‘hydotheropy’ treatment (basically a cold shower). My wife said to me “how on earth did they believe in such ridiculous things in those days?” “Honey” I said “They still do”
Probably advisable not to send a team of skeptics consisting of diabetics then.
I haven’t checked the validity of this info, but have a read anyways. You might get a shock at how many ‘proven medicines’ out there on the shelves have the same pedigree as the homoeopathic meds.
Boots also sells a ton of ant-wrinkle cream that doesn’t work and it’s various foundation don’t make most of us anywhere near as gorgeous as the purport to. Maybe a campaign’s required for that too?
Would help if I added the url… http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=51
Please don’t do that! I earn a good living about lecturing about this pseudo-science the more people believe in it the more I get asked to debunk it!
Ignorance is a bliss people
Homeopathy does work even if it is only the power of suggestion at work. Keep buying that way I do not have to rewrite my lecture about extra-terrestrial UFOs, ghosts and goolies and think of effects to demonstrate that nonsense.
That’s cool. I wish someone did it here in Australia.
Once I bought a bottle of sleeping pills that later turned out were just homeopathic scam.
Arek
arekphotography.blogspot.com
And if I’d read over my post before sending, oops. It should read
Boots also sells a ton of ant-wrinkle cream that doesn’t work and its various foundations don’t make most of us anywhere near as gorgeous as they purport to. Maybe a campaign’s required for that too?
Did the sceptics buy their bottles from Boots?
Having said all that, I do believe anything ‘sold’ as medicine should be tested and supported. But that is ALL meds. On top of that, I believe painkillers should be off the shelves and behind the counter to be be sold as pharmacists only. No ones seems worried about that kind of mass-availability self-medication, which is far worse than the gubbing of a few sugar pills.
Wouldn’t an underdose be more effective?…
JayKay, I suggest you read the link you posted, it debunks the 50 year old myth about modern medicine being largely unproven. Homeopathy is 0% proven over and above placebo.
Paul Quinn, The 1023 campaign specifically states Boots own brand range as preference. Yes Boots will see a very marginal increase in sales but if that prevents people from buying them in the future then Boots will cease to sell the items.
Yes there will be detractors and yes there are many many more campaigns like nutrition, cosmetics, education etc, etc.. However raising awareness of one thing will hopefully educate people even just a little.
Q. “What harm can it do, even if it’s just placebo?”
A. Encouraging people, often at their most vulnerable, to seek bogus treatments for themselves or their children is dangerous and the antithesis of health and welfare.
I’m not sure how this protest is supposed to work. A lot of people buy homeopathic remedies BECAUSE you can’t overdose on them. They think they’re less dangerous than pharmaceuticals. (Not so in some cases. A lot of the time the so-called ‘homeopathic’ remedies you get in shops are just random ingredients thrown together; including some poisonous ingredients. I once was shown one that had belladonna in it!)
James Randi used to often take a whole bottle of homeopathic sleeping pills in front of an audience to prove this point.
It’s quite likely that when a homeopathic remedy works, it is the placebo effect… but so what? Placebos are quite a useful treatment for a great many illnesses with a psychosomatic component, including relief of some kinds of pain. As long as it’s emphasised that serious conditions and persistent symptoms need to be checked out by your GP, then a lot of things don’t actually need medication and will respond perfectly well to a placebo.
I like this quote from Dara O’Briain on homeopathy:
“It’s just water!..People say the great thing about homeopathy is you can’t overdose on it; well, you can f*ucking drown!”
Much as I think homeopathy is a load of guff, I’m slightly confused as to how taking an entire bottle-ful of sugar pills is going to prove that it is…
@jaykay totally with u on the painkiller bit. This is the only country I have been to that openly sells codeine over the counter. And those combination tabs with a ton of aspirin in them are even worse.
I wonder how many of these protestors are religious? Or funded by big pharma?
I’ve seen personally many people that have benefitted from homeopathy (my father was a homeopath). I remain skeptical. Perhaps it’s more the holistic approach than the remedies that make a difference? Woiuld you rather go to your GP and trust them to treat you as a person? When they’re paid to dispense drugs that make a profit from your illness? Are antibiotics going to treat you? Or just your symptoms?
Either way, homeopathy’s certainly not a harmful therapy, especially compared to big pharma (thalidomide, MRSA, etc). If you don’t like it, don’t do it. If you’re gonna protest against the harm of unproven beliefs, go protest against religions which catalyse wars, prejudice and real, measurable harm.
I once tried to walk out of Boots without paying for ‘complimentary’ medicine… they didn’t see the funny side.
@JayKay
(1) dude you are hating on Conventional Medicine apparently without much understanding of the issues
(a) “one size fits all dose” – medicine of course tries to find which drugs and which doses are appropriate to which situations and which people. That is fundamental, the difficulty is which aspects of a person to take into account.
(b) Exercise, getting a hobby etc are an important part of how doctors approach functional depression
(2) The article you post
(a) not 15% refers to “of what doctors do” not medicines. Its hard to distinguish what is included in this and basing everything one does on scientific evidence is a pretty high target. Nevertheless in the context of examining how medicine is practised it is worth looking at.
(b)The first half of the Washington Monthly article boils down to the evidence base…
…for surgical intervention in back pain and only describes the problems inherent in a private healthcare system.
(d) the bit about off-label prescribing is misleading see the http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=51 that you linked to.
In fact just read that article
Ant-wrinkle cream ? ? ? It gives ants wrinkles or removes them ?
This stunt is simply preaching to the choir.
People who actually buy into the “less is more” approach of homeopathy won’t be in the least surprised when nobody suffers adverse effects from these “overdoses”.
@rey ‘ This is the only country I have been to that openly sells codeine over the counter.’
In many Asian countries you can buy much more powerful stuff than codeine over the counter.
I don’t see how this is going to prove anything. It’s just a stunt that will comfort a bunch of people’s egos.
The person who has made the most sense to me is David Lockie, so thank you for your post. I believe in treating the cause of problems, rather than addressing the symptoms.
Anyone who thinks that a ‘scientifically proven’ approach is the only thing that works, and is the only thing that will ever work, is rather arrogant in my opinion. I think that humans know quite little about what’s going on in this world, and new understandings come to light all the time. People once believed that the world was flat, but it appears it isn’t so. There’s no reason why many of the things that people believe right now will hold true.
@Joe: I find yr insinuation offensive. Which country in Asia r u talking abt?
Since homeopathic remedies work on the idea that ‘the greater the dilution, the higher the potency’, surely taking a bottle full will have almost no effect at all. However, not taking ANY will surely have the greatest effect. So don’t take any homeopathic remedies and you’re sure to be cured of everything.
Am I missing something here?
HAHA! sounds like a great lark, if they’re using the alcohol-based stuff!
@YesIt’sMe
“new understandings come to light all the time. People once believed that the world was flat, but it appears it isn’t so.”
Yup – the scientific method had nothing to do with debunking that myth, did it?
“Boy, I sure hope the placebo effect doesn’t kick in. Could be messy.”
*snickers*
@ YesIt’sMe & AuntieEm
Actually no-one has really advocated the flat earth theory since the Babylonians and Ancient Egyptians – the Ancient Greeks (Pythagoras and then Aristotle) were the first to develop the notion of the spherical earth and evidence shows that it pretty much stuck ever-since. The whole dark ages ‘flat earth’ thing is a myth. (There was an interesting bunch of nutters who formed the ‘Flat Earth society’ in more recent times but they have since realised their idiocy and disbanded).
Perhaps you meant the heliocentric view of the Earth?
and regarding your statement about arrogance. How can you be arrogant for demanding evidence before you believe something?!! To require sound evidence is to be rational, whereas to operate on blind faith is to be naive, and to discount scientific understanding is dangerous and ignorant.
Re drugs over counter, said I needed to treat a headache when in Egypt, was sold lithium. Re homeopathy: really seems like it shouldn’t work, and I am really a sceptic, but I can’t explain away the good arnica seems to have done me. Can anyone help?!
This sounds as silly and as ineffective as some of PETAs publicity stunts. Try again folks.
Like everything that’s not proven to work but yet sells and there’s a guy I found recently who summed it up pretty well on his about page (newagecrap.com/about).
Reading through you will find this..
“muddling it in sophistic gibberish, with the intention usually of selling their ideas to masses of gullible people.”
The guy has a way with words, it would make a good banner for the campaign don’t you think?
HAHAHAHAA! Beautiful.
Im proud to say i’ll be one of the 30 taking part in Liverpool..
While this may serve as a high-profile protest against homeopathy, it’s logically flawed, unless those taking the pillules are suffering from the ailments the remedies they’re taking are supposed to cure. One of the claims made for homeopathy is that it has no side effects, so normally healthy people taking large ‘doses’ should see no effect, which is presumably what the protestors are expecting.
…but homeopathy does work for some people! What is really being highlighted here is the failure of modern science to provide a framework within which this much derided ‘placebo’ effect makes sense. The mind healing the body without any active medicine is surely more significant than what we already know about pharmacuticals and desereves much more study and consideration than just mocking because we don’t really understand it…
Yeah, homeopathy is retarded pseudoscience whose products are scientifically proven to be nothing more than “snake oil,” but I think the zealots who use homeopathy will disregard these actions and the protesters will O.D. on sugar and get sugar crash headaches and the like. And Boots–a dominating franchise pharmaceutical and cosmetics convenience chain–won\’t care about the protest results so long as their homeopathy zealot customers keep paying their bills for them. People should file a case against the state. The U.K. tax dollars are pumped into this pseudoscience, providing the platform for homeopathic products to be distributed in this manner.
@Alex. Maybe using the flat earth example was a bad idea. It was merely an illustration of my point, which you seem to have missed, as you did with my use of the term ‘arrogant’. I wasn’t saying that people are arrogant when they demand evidence before believing something, but rather, when they believe that what they ‘know’ is the truth, and nothing else could ever possibly be so.
For what it’s worth, I have always been the kind to want to see evidence before I believe something. The more I read about science, the more I realise that we only have a vague grasp of what’s going on, and that less tangible things such as energies, ‘co-incidences’, unexplainable phenomena, and so on, do have a place in science, but tend to be discarded as non-sense because of the attached social stigma. This seems very wrong to me (as does discarding scientific understanding – I agree with you there). What’s wrong with an open mind?
Sooooo cool to have Derren Brown onboard with this!
I’m involved in the Leicester hub of this action, and if there’s anybody reading this in the Leicester area that would be interested in getting involved, go to the website that Derren linked to at the bottom of his blog, go to the “Get Involved” section, and fill in your details. There’s also a Skeptics in the Pub event on tonight, where you could find out more, and again there are links in the “Contact” section to find out more.
Thanks Derren, it’s brilliant that you’ve promoted this!
@YesIt’sMe I fail to see how it’s arrogant to accept solidly proven scientific facts. It’s one thing to say “isn’t life mysterious”, but the scientists of the world try to make it less mysterious rather than just accepting it’s mysteriosity. Homeopathy has been repeatedly and incontrovertibly proven not to work, so how is it open minded to say that it might still work? That seems like a good ol’ cyclical belief system going on there.
There’s such a thing as the placebo effect. If people want to spend their money on homeopathic remedies then who’s business is it but theirs? If they benefit from the placebo effect then all the better. No, I’m not a believer, but ffs, what is people’s problems with other people believing? We already have enough religions berating others for believing in things that aren’t in the script!
@YesIt’sMe – there is nothing wrong with being a bit open minded, but disregarding vast quantities of scientific evidence (in repeated, rigorous scientific testing homeopathy persistently fails to demonstrate any significant and consistent effects) defies logic and goes well beyond ‘open minded’ to the ridiculous, almost a state of denial.
To quote Tim Minchin / Richard Dawkins / whoever said it first “if you open your mind too much, your brain will fall out”
The problem with believing is that irrational beliefs, fears and superstitions hold human kind back, they prevent our development to an enlightened species. Perpetuating these belief systems hinders our intellectual, scientific and technological development.
The big problem with ‘believing’ in homeopathy is when the NHS spends a staggering £12 million on a ‘form of medicine’ which despite rigorous testing cannot prove it’s efficacy or worth. That £12 million would have put to much much better use down the road at Great Ormond St Hospital helping sick kids get actual, REAL treatment.
I hate that this will pour more money into the homeopath’s coffers, though. There’s got to be another way to protest that doesn’t involve purchasing the “remedies.” Woo-believers always manipulate (or ignore) the evidence to fit their beliefs, and I doubt this will change anyone’s mind. Unfortunately.
That’s not to say nothing should be done, of course.
If you search sites such as pubmed you will see that there have been many trials including double-blinded RCT’s in homeopathy, many of which with positive results. The problem with Homeopathy is that it can not be explained HOW it works and as a result is often dismissed and assumed to be placebo. It seems that the people who are most critical of Homeopathy are the people who have never tried it. We have become so reliant upon science that we use it as a stamp of approval.
Homeopathy works for some people and not for others, similar to some modern drugs, and for many people who have tried homeopathy, it has proved to be beneficial. So whats the problem?
@Alex: Smoking costs the NHS £5bn a year, boozing cost £2.7bn a year, methodone for herion addicts – £22m a year and the NHS cost £3000 a second to run in general.
I think the people involved in this campaign are a bunch of fools. If homeopathy works for some people, let them do it. There’s no crime against it! Aren’t we free to do what we like? OK, I hate wasting money, but if you don’t try, you won’t learn. If people didn’t think it worked, would they continue to buy it?
You can tell that some of the posters here are the “fools” themselves. Whilst I wouldn’t want anybody seriously injured, I hope they all have side effects – but clearly they wouldn’t admit to anything even if they did!
Once more we have misquotation and confusion – homeopathy has never been proven to not work!!!! It simply has yet to be clinically proven TO work! I wish these people would get their facts straight!!!
People here are saying there\’s no harm in homeopathy. There IS HARM when people take it instead of real medicine. People have killed their kids in this way, recently in Australia for instance.
go to whatstheharm.net and look under \”homeopathy\” for more sad cases.
Homeopathy is intented to complement conventional medicine and a professional and qualified homeopath should always encourage their clients to seek help from a doctor should it be out of their depth. The problem with homeopathy is that it is not regulated and anyone can be a homeopathist if they want to be. If a person makes a choice to take or not take medicine, that is their choice. It’s called human rights. Surgury kills people as does medicine. Should we ban that?
@Karen – that’s simply because scientifically you can’t prove a negative (i.e. that something does not work), you can only test it repeatedly to see if it does work – homeopathy doesn’t when it is tested rigorously, and there is no explanation for why it might work (the only suggested explanations defy the laws of science).
@Jenny – we use scientific method as a stamp of approval because it is the best safest method we have to rely on for information. You gather information, test your theory and analyse your data impartially. What is wrong with that?
I can only find one double blind RCT trial that showed homeopathy slightly more effective than a placebo but less effective than conventional medicine. The other studies showing positive results are not double blind which is the standard for a drugs trial
a study which isn’t double blind is at huge risk from experimenter bias effects (which is usually not the conscious ‘fault’ of the experimenter – but they do have a massive impact). With the small sample sizes in most of the studies (including the double blind study) and the impact of experimenter bias in non double-blind trials, results are highly questionable.
There are many more studies conducted with rigorous, double-blind procedures and meta-analysis which continue to show no significant or consistent effect.
@ Jenny – I am not disputing how much the NHS costs to run or the strains placed on it by irresponsible human behaviours, but I am seriously concerned that they are spending 12 million on an unproven alternative medicine when that money could save lives down the road at Great Ormond street. To me, it’s irresponsible.
..but there is one medical condition homeopathy CAN cure: http://defendreason.ebaker.me.uk/2010/01/homeopathy.html
Ironically, not disputing that Derrin Brown is not an utter genius, some could argue that he does not have evidence based research behind him, yet millions follow him.
jenny, “follow him” is maybe not the right words or even applies in this context. I’m sure like yourself I think most just enjoy the entertainment value of him. He’s very clear about what he does at the start of his shows if you read between the lines. Homeopathy products are not.
Quote: “Are antibiotics going to treat you? Or just your symptoms?”
Quote: “I believe in treating the cause of problems, rather than addressing the symptoms.”
For posters like David Lockie and YesIt’sMe … People, the whole PRINCIPLE of homeopathy is “like cures like” and it is addressed SPECIFICALLY to the SYMPTOMS. As in quinine and malaria: potentised quinine is used because, if undiluted, it would cause the SAME SYMPTOMS as malaria.
If homeopaths wanted to focus on the ILLNESS rather than the symptoms, they would prescribe potentised PLASMODIA PARASITES for malaria, potentised RICKETTSIA TYPHI bacteria to cure typhus, etc.
They DO NOT.
Very sorry for the SHOUTY CAPS, but it really does seem as though some pro-homeopathy people don’t know the first thing about their own field of interest.
It amazes me that bottles of water are allowed to be sold under the pretense that they can assist in curing ailments. Derren should start selling pint bottles of “Snake Oil”, good for what ails you at his concerts and any other events. Heck, he should start selling them here on the site! He can’t get in trouble for it, since it seems that the UK has finally gone over to the crazy side and anything goes!
Snake Oil, get yer Snake Oil here…better than eating an apple a day…Roll up, Roll up, get yer Snake Oil here…
YES, WE FOLLOW HIM….EVER SINCE HE TOLD US THE TRUTH….WE HAVE BEEN SWAYED FROM THE PATH OF OUR ELDERS…WE NO LONGER MAKE SACRIFICES TO THE GODS…WE FOLLOW HIM…HE IS THE ONE…WE FOLLOW…HE DOES NOT CHARGE US TO TAKE COURSES TO BECOME MORE LIKE AN ALIEN RACE, BUT WE FOLLOW HIM…BLIND OBEDIENCE IS NOT REQUIRED, BUT WE FOLLOW HIM…HE WANTS AND MAKES US THINK FOR OURSELVES, BUT WE FOLLOW HIM…Oh please, give me a break!
The only way I “follow” Derren Brown is on Twitter. And if you were to do a survey of people who enjoy Derren, his performances, observations, and this web site you will probably find that the majority of them are not “blind followeres” of anything. Most of whom would look at multiple reliable sources of information before making important decisions about anything including their health. One would hope…
‘Follow him’ was the only way I could word it so the moderators would publish it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIaV8swc-fo
By the way…
None of us died.
I am staggered at the niavity of most of the comments here.
Mainstream medicine has forgotten the underlying principles of “cause and effect”. Illnesses/diseases are all caused by something. Find the something, kill the something and the symptoms will have to cease. If however you simply treat the symptoms (as pharmaceutical companies and the National health Service do) then you will never get better.
The (unpalatble truth is that mainstream medicine and the pharmaceutical companies that run it are set up to maintain/manage symptoms and so ensure billions of pounds/dollars/euros go into the pockets of exploitative companies who have no desire to “cure” but simply to keep milking us all.
Just because you don’t understand something doesn’t mean it doeasn’t exist. Explain electricity.
1. Homeopathy doesn’t find or cure anything, symptoms or otherwise, it’s made of water.
2. You’re not telling the truth. I went to a doctor recently for a problem, a regular NHS doctor. She didn’t simply dispense a drug to me. She asked me detailed questions about my daily routine, diet, drinking, exercise, etc before treating me or suggesting any lifestyle changes that might help, and has followed up regularly. Making NHS doctors out to be money-grubbing machines is preying on the fears of others in order to drive them towards these “alternatives.”
3. Are you seriously saying that nobody has explained electricity?
4. Pharmaceutical companies and their policies may suck. That doesn’t mean homeopathy works.
5. Science is about trying to explain things, it ENJOYS things it doesn’t understand yet. Look at physicists and the LHC.
If homeopathy is placebo then maybe we should look at why placebo works? (which it has been PROVEN to) Its power of the mind! (something that im sure you Derrin Brown fans appreciate). The body is amazing and we have an amazing abilty to heal ourselves (conventional medicine is ofcourse vital for life threatening diseases and should never be taken for granted). Conventional medicine supresses symptoms which is so stressfull on our bodies, why put it through such an ordeal when our bodies would have dealt with it in its own time?
With regards to deception, read this study http://ehp.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/26/2/153. Its facinating.
And homeopathy does not KILL people, negligence does, something that western doctors are more guilty of than homeopathists
Similar study in Israel: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC524103/pdf/bmj32900944.pdf
In abstract: Objectives To gauge the frequency and circumstances of use of placebo in clinical practice and the attitudes towards its use among those who administer it.
Results: Among the 89 respondents, 53 (60%) used placebos (95% confidence interval 49% to 70%). Among users, 33 (62%) prescribed a placebo as often as once a month or more; 36 (68%) told patients they were receiving actual medication; 15 (28%) considered that placebos were a diagnostic tool; and 48/51 (94%) reported that they found placebos generally or occasionally effective.
I am really surprised on this attack on Homeopathy, especially as I haven’t seen anyone with the faintest understanding of Homeopathic philosophy behind their comments. I don’t feel the need to defend it myself as I already know that it works and have been using it successfully for years. However, I must point out, if you are going to do a mass ‘overdose’ in order to prove us wrong, the remedies cannot be taken all at the same time. That simply will not work and will be the equivalent of taking one dose. Homeopathy simply doesn’t work that way. Each dose should be taken at least several hours apart or at the very least daily if high, if you really want to prove anything. To make it interesting why not try something like Syphillinum, Stramonium, Belladonna or Helleborus in high potency