Comments on: Astronomer Copernicus Reburied As Hero http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2010/05/astronomer-copernicus-reburied-hero/ The official Derren Brown Blog Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:29:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: Paul M http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2010/05/astronomer-copernicus-reburied-hero/#comment-59278 Paul M Wed, 26 May 2010 02:54:58 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=12462#comment-59278 What is now called Poland was then called ... wait for it - Poland. Poland was actually the major central power at the time and Krakow was a major centre of learning. Throwing stones at religion today because of what it did 500 years ago lacks a certain punch. I agree that Islam culture of 1,000 years ago does not get the recognition it deserves. @Rob said: 'In some respects, religion and science can be said to have the same roots – the desire to understand and explain the world around us.' This is from a text called Fides et Ratio written by the last pope in 1998: 'Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth ...' RE: 'divide and rule'. I rather see a desire to absorb and rule. Monotheism seems to abhor division. Maybe ... What is now called Poland was then called … wait for it – Poland. Poland was actually the major central power at the time and Krakow was a major centre of learning.

Throwing stones at religion today because of what it did 500 years ago lacks a certain punch.

I agree that Islam culture of 1,000 years ago does not get the recognition it deserves.

@Rob said: ‘In some respects, religion and science can be said to have the same roots – the desire to understand and explain the world around us.’
This is from a text called Fides et Ratio written by the last pope in 1998:
‘Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth …’

RE: ‘divide and rule’. I rather see a desire to absorb and rule. Monotheism seems to abhor division.

Maybe …

]]> By: Rob http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2010/05/astronomer-copernicus-reburied-hero/#comment-59189 Rob Tue, 25 May 2010 10:03:34 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=12462#comment-59189 @Rob: yes, you are right. What interested me was the way the complexities of their calendar, combined with the instructions of their holy book to 'learn about the stars', forced them to develop more accurate ways of describing the movement of celestial bodies and lead to the development of modern celestial mechanics. However, like many religions, the desire to understand and explore was replaced after several generations by a form of psychosis with obsessive compulsive aspects that is reinforced by the prospect of eternal damnation. Just like Christianity. Many important western scientists were also devoted Christians. I think that a pervasive theocracy leaves each individual with very little choice about faith, moral philosophy and metaphysics. @Rob: yes, you are right. What interested me was the way the complexities of their calendar, combined with the instructions of their holy book to ‘learn about the stars’, forced them to develop more accurate ways of describing the movement of celestial bodies and lead to the development of modern celestial mechanics. However, like many religions, the desire to understand and explore was replaced after several generations by a form of psychosis with obsessive compulsive aspects that is reinforced by the prospect of eternal damnation. Just like Christianity.
Many important western scientists were also devoted Christians. I think that a pervasive theocracy leaves each individual with very little choice about faith, moral philosophy and metaphysics.

]]> By: Tony http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2010/05/astronomer-copernicus-reburied-hero/#comment-59185 Tony Tue, 25 May 2010 06:55:55 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=12462#comment-59185 I'm sure Copernicus himself is thrilled by this turn of events. I mean, what is the point? I’m sure Copernicus himself is thrilled by this turn of events.

I mean, what is the point?

]]> By: Hemant http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2010/05/astronomer-copernicus-reburied-hero/#comment-59175 Hemant Mon, 24 May 2010 22:18:21 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=12462#comment-59175 Religion = Divide and Rule. Religion = Divide and Rule.

]]> By: Rob http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2010/05/astronomer-copernicus-reburied-hero/#comment-59168 Rob Mon, 24 May 2010 18:00:02 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=12462#comment-59168 @Rob In some respects, religion and science can be said to have the same roots - the desire to understand and explain the world around us. When this challenge is taken seriously, amazing things can happen, such as the advances that you describe. I will also agree that they haven't been credited as well as they could have been. But the fact that they are Muslim or Islamic shouldn't matter (and if I understand your second post correctly, you would agree with me). It is also plain to see what happens when people are satisfied with easy answers, and this is where religion and science are worlds apart. @Rob
In some respects, religion and science can be said to have the same roots – the desire to understand and explain the world around us.

When this challenge is taken seriously, amazing things can happen, such as the advances that you describe. I will also agree that they haven’t been credited as well as they could have been. But the fact that they are Muslim or Islamic shouldn’t matter (and if I understand your second post correctly, you would agree with me).

It is also plain to see what happens when people are satisfied with easy answers, and this is where religion and science are worlds apart.

]]> By: zorger http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2010/05/astronomer-copernicus-reburied-hero/#comment-59163 zorger Mon, 24 May 2010 15:21:25 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=12462#comment-59163 Yes it is too bad the Muslims threw away their development of the process of empirical observation and reasoning. Much of that was absorbed from other cultures that Islam had overtaken. After a generation or two any innovation was damped out, except perhaps in Baghdad. But that was all destroyed by the Huns. Yes it is too bad the Muslims threw away their development of the process of empirical observation and reasoning. Much of that was absorbed from other cultures that Islam had overtaken. After a generation or two any innovation was damped out, except perhaps in Baghdad. But that was all destroyed by the Huns.

]]> By: Rob http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2010/05/astronomer-copernicus-reburied-hero/#comment-59146 Rob Mon, 24 May 2010 10:11:02 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=12462#comment-59146 The reason this is important? Well, history is written by the victors. We must not fall into that trap. I never learnt the names of any islamic scholars at school but I certainly know about Ptolemy, Aristotle, Plato, Newton, Galileo and Copernicus. The deletion of Islamic influence from history only serves to increase the sense of disenfranchisement and separateness that fuels radicalism. It justifies the nonsense they tell each other - about western plans to oppress and eliminate Islam. For the record, I speak as a rationalist and atheist (with a slight stubborn streak of agnosticism, only because you never know...) The reason this is important? Well, history is written by the victors. We must not fall into that trap. I never learnt the names of any islamic scholars at school but I certainly know about Ptolemy, Aristotle, Plato, Newton, Galileo and Copernicus.
The deletion of Islamic influence from history only serves to increase the sense of disenfranchisement and separateness that fuels radicalism. It justifies the nonsense they tell each other – about western plans to oppress and eliminate Islam.
For the record, I speak as a rationalist and atheist (with a slight stubborn streak of agnosticism, only because you never know…)

]]> By: Rob http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2010/05/astronomer-copernicus-reburied-hero/#comment-59145 Rob Mon, 24 May 2010 10:05:38 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=12462#comment-59145 While I am ecstatic that such an important figure has finally got the recognition that he wanted in his lifetime, from the institutions he loved but that rejected him terribly, I do have a slight issue. Call me pedantic, but on my visit to the wonderful Science Museum in London this saturday, I learnt something incredibly interesting. The importance of Muslim scholars and their refinement of both astrological principles and theory, as well as their development of the process of empirical observation and reasoning (the scientific method) cannot be overstated. In today's turbulent world it is worth remembering the important contribution of muslims to science. Copernicus certainly got his ideas from the East. However, he was still a great and brave man. While I am ecstatic that such an important figure has finally got the recognition that he wanted in his lifetime, from the institutions he loved but that rejected him terribly, I do have a slight issue.
Call me pedantic, but on my visit to the wonderful Science Museum in London this saturday, I learnt something incredibly interesting.
The importance of Muslim scholars and their refinement of both astrological principles and theory, as well as their development of the process of empirical observation and reasoning (the scientific method) cannot be overstated.
In today’s turbulent world it is worth remembering the important contribution of muslims to science. Copernicus certainly got his ideas from the East. However, he was still a great and brave man.

]]>