“Following in the tradition of bigots everywhere, a Florida church is preparing to hold a book-burning. Not just any book; the Quran.
Dove World Outreach Center is a non-denominational evangelical church in Gainesville, Florida. They have announced a special celebration of the 9th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks . . . something that will show Christian love, reduce hatred between people of different religions, and lead toward greater understanding around the world. Or not.
Dove will host “International Burn a Quran Day” on September 11, 2010. Pastor Terry Jones says the idea came, in part, from the recent success of “Everybody Draw Muhammad Day”. He comments that “We feel, as Christians, one of our jobs is to warn,” and that burning the holy books of another religion will provide Muslims an opportunity to convert.
Jones missed the point of Everybody Draw. That event, in response to the irrational attacks (including physical assaults, attempted murder, attempted arson, and successful murder) on Western cartoonists, authors, and filmmakers who drew or otherwise criticized Muhammad, Islam’s prophet, was intended to communicate to radical Islamists that Westerners would not cave to their demands of censorship.
International Burn is not about freedom of expression. It is about hatred of Islam, not just the radical actions of some Muslims.”
Read more at Secular News Daily
This is both disgusting and frustrating. I won’t ask rhetorical questions like “why would they do this?” In fact I guess we can’t be too surprised at this kind of thing.
There is a word in Arabic meaning people of the book. It includes Christians. As much as I don’t agree with religions per se there is no need to have a such a lack of respect. There is no need for such extremes on any side. We all have perfectly lovely moderate friends.
Consider also that in Islam Jesus is a profet. Many of the stories (including older ones) are the same.
Good God. Even as a Christian myself I find this act offensive and a load of crap.
Tragic. Seriously, this is horrific and an embarassment to Christians everywhere.
So sad and misguided.
My point being that, to some extent these people are burning a book that contains their own scripture. It’s such a basic lack of understanding. A chosen lack of understanding. There is no sense in a default hatred of something which you have not sought to understand first.
This sickens me, they commemorate a time where people lost their lives at the hands of religious zealots with their own religious intolerance.
“burning the holy books of another religion will provide Muslims an opportunity to convert”. All I can say to that is…
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.
Buddhism FTW!
That is all.
I cannot believe in this day and age we have such ignorant bigots…burning any book is wrong and evil, and has shades of Hitler’s Germany
Dove Outreach. Mmm. Maybe the same dove that was in Mars Attacks and was toasted by the Martians.
I am so unhappy about this.
Maybe we should bombard them with thousands of e-mails, begging them to desist.
I am gonna send one – what about you?
It only takes one match to burn a thousand trees… how long does one burning Quran last, and how far will the flames spread?
Such a potent image of hatred.
It never ceases to amaze me how intolerant people are in the name of religion, and the more fundamental they get, the more horrific the acts of “faith”. To repeat, for the umpmillionth time, they’re all the same.
I am trying to find an e-mail address but their website insists you use a form-filling method that makes me worried. I may set up a one-off e-mail account just for this purpose.
I used to have a bumper sticker on my car that read “God please protect me from your followers” I got a lot of grief for it. I’m beginning to feel the need for that sentiment again.
Seriously, folks – not helpful. What happened to compassion and understanding? If you think someone is misguided then extend to them patience and understanding – book burning is ignorant and demonstrates only the worst they already believe. If you believe, then have faith – God can take it. This is a galactically stupid idea
Astoundingly unchristian.
hey rob you dont need to create a new email address go to:hidemyass.com And the let you use a email address that expires after a certain amout of days.
Wow. What a total disgrace. How can either this event or the ‘Everyone Draw Muhammed [sic] Day’ they referred to be considered anything other than out and out incitement to racial hatred?
If this is being touted as anything else, then they’re utterly delusional. This kind of ‘religion in your face, I’m-right-you’re-wrong, let me save you’ evangelism is deeply offensive and represents a hugely retrograde step in peaceful progress.
I do hope the sentiments expressed do not represent those of ‘proper’ Christians.
These people should be prosecuted.
as a 14 year old mixraced child, the thought of one religion trying to destroy another sickens me entirely… i try so hard at school to stand up against hatred like this, but how stupid am i being by thinking that my actions to stop hatred in teenagers can result i anything when there are ADULTS being this stupid…
No matter how crazy you think people can get, they always have one extra degree of crazy tucked away for a rainy day. I hope it’s very, very rainy on 11th sept, 2010.
Didier,
“burning any book is wrong and evil, and has shades of Hitler’s Germany”
Yah, umm, on close inspection, the unexpurgated content of the Koran is actually no better than “Mein Kampf”
Having said that, hasn’t it occurred to the rather puerile provocateurs at Dove World Outreach that someone presumably has to buy these Korans in the first place, before they can be burnt?
Who gets the royalties?
I hope Dove don’t end up unwittingly funding jihad with their pious Christian zeal!
florida has been a pain in my pagan ass fer many years now. they will use anything they can to persecute people of a different religion–including zoning laws! jeez, i’m glad i dont live there!
looks like we were premature when we thought the burning times were over…
Dear Chloe Barot,
you are not being stupid at all, it is well worth trying to stop hate wherever you find it. Quite often when you hear of adults behaving in this way it is because they have never had their views properly challenged. It may seem unlikely, but groups of people can be insular enough to only ever talk to others that share their views. By speaking out you raise the idea that their way of thinking may not be correct. It is possible that these particular loonies have no idea that what they are doing is as degrading to humanity as we so plainly see it.
Of course, it is also possible that they are being intentionally offensive. But that’s not particularly interesting.
It will be interesting to see how this pans out.
No doubt the religion of peace will respond as always, with good humour and decorum.
I certainly don’t think there will be riots, death threats or retaliatory bible burnings.
I wonder how this ignorant bastard pastor would react to a bible burning. Would that make him want to convert to Islam?
Do you not think burning another faiths religious book, will cause more hatred and conflict??? I think if it’s a way to convert muslim’s, than how would Christians react if the bible was burned as a national day??? Your church is a load of fucking crap, and it’s your kind of people that cause confrontation between faiths. Fucking load of DICKHEADS
I hope they get an earful from the fire marshal followed by a heavy rain that puts the fire out and the church gets burned by a lightning strike! I was always butting heads with people like this when I lived in Florida.
Woollenmillie: Then I assume the same can be said of its sources, the Torah and the Bible. All three contain genocide, a God that advocates killing the children of one’s enemies, and a lovely story of a man named Lot offering his daughters to a mob of rapists. All contain wisdom and tales of compassion as well. Nobody should live their life on the basis of ancient mythology, but to single out one group of people and burn something they hold dear is simply not very polite, nor will it lead to them understanding your point.
Also, having been written literally ages ago, the Koran is royalty-free — proceeds go to the publisher or the editors of the specific edition.
Mr Islam: Our church? If I’m not very much mistaken, nobody here belongs to the Dove Outreach Center. Hence our angry comments.
I wonder if they’ll remove the 95% of the Quran that is identical to the Bible and just burn the rest of it?
Shows the importance of getting rid of both of these stupid superstitious and idiotic ancient traditions. Idiotic idea. Though I understand why the poor preacher in Florida wants to hype his superstition since his numbers are probably, as all other religions on Earth, currently plummeting …
I wonder how the preacher would react if we were a bunch of Brights meeting up with our own copies of the Bible and starting our own bonfire there …?
Argh, first message was deleted! I’ll start over. Roz, could we please not generalize? Says the Floridian in the room. I know plenty of people (some are even from Florida! Imagine…) who disagree with the burning of books and the spreading of hatred by using such methods to make someone come around to anothers way of thinking. It’s sad that ONE church is choosing to mourn such a days events by creating more hatred.
Muslims burn down Cristian churches and murder the congregations in Pakistan and Indonesia just do google check on “Muslims Murder Christians”
I will be burning a copy of that evil book ” The Koran” TODAY !!!
Pity it isn’t in the UK, Ive always wanted to go to a quran burning session.
That totalitarian ideology has no place in the west, and has brought nothing but misery.
The sooner it is realised by the majority the better.
Funny how the Christians are basically mimicking the extremists they oppose.
Mike and Stevie, you should not single out ALL Muslims for the actions of just some of the so-called “Muslims” ..
@amber, yes, i have lots of friends in florida too–& they dont all disagree with this, either. but having friends in florida does not stop me from getting totally PISSED at the tactics they have been using down there…some of which are specifically found in florida & nowhere else! gee, why is that? maybe the people who DO disagree havent done anything about it? not even said anything? they’re just sitting around thinking, “they havent come for me…yet”.
What is it about religion? It seems that it attracts the complete bottom of the gene pool and puts them in a position to spout whatever rubbish they want.
Hey Mike, how about that religion from the Middle East that took most of the West by force, stomped out several minor religions and waged war on the other major monotheistic ones? You know, the religion that spawned the prosecution of Jewish people, the Inquisition, the Crusades, oh and for a modern example, please see the previous post on this blog.
No, that’s not all of Christianity. Nor is violence and nastiness all of Islam.
Pot and kettle, and all that.
Either you burn all religious tomes, or you can act like a civilised person and not burn any books at all. Maybe read some, instead. Try Fahrenheit 451.
John Scott C- cut out the profanity. I can’t believe this is happening.
Berber Anna,
The remark about royalties funding jihad was an ironic comment which obviously bypassed some people’s sense of humour. However, many translations of the Koran are not in the public domain, though some permissions have been granted for non-commercial use.
As for your rather prickly little lesson in Biblical Literature & Theology – it’s unnecessary, really, for a former student of Theology, now ex-Christian – but thank you for your kind effort anyway.
Tu Quoque is a logical fallacy Islamophiles seem to rely upon a little too heavily, dontcha think?
Burn it? Good Lord, but why? Recycle a Quran. And a Bible for that matter. Put that paper to better use. If that’s not acceptable, here’s another idea: make a the “Read the Quran day” and instigate the Muslims to do the same with the Bible. Gather together in the park and read each other’s book (not that you read your own or anything, and you don’t just take your imam/pastor/whatever’s word for it – it’s not like he cherry picks the passages he likes, right?).
@Robert
It seems you are the delusional one.
Which gene or sequence of genes codes for islam?
It’s amazing how many people lack not only a basic lack of knowledge of both biology and English.
For the record, islam is NOT a race, it’s and ideology, much like Marxism,Democracy,Capitalism, etc.
Second of all, it seems that once again, you have made a basic error, Everyone draw mohammed was not about inciting hatred, racial or otherwise, it was to demonstrate to the followers of the “religion of peace”, that those who are not members of their delusional cult are not bound by it’s scriptures. We are free to exercise our rights, which include drawing and satirising ANYONE.
continued:
Third, just what exactly are you proposing they be charged with?
You can burn the flag in America, so you can sure as hell burn a book!
Yes the koran is just a book at the end of the day, and it’s not illegal to burn a book.
Or are you saying that because the koran is the holy book of islam it should be illegal to burn it?
For the record I am not in favor of burning books, it’s pretty much the stupidest thing you can do with one, but IF someone wants to burn a book, then as much as I think it’s pretty foolish, at the end of the day they have the right to do so.
Frankly I think the Quran is a horrible book but that also goes for the bible and the Tanakh.
To me a book is just a book. Once my car was snowed in, in Northern California I dug it out with the bible I found in the hotel room. I would do that also with the Quran or even a science book.
The thing is, you can burn the book but you wont kill those thoughts by that.
You can burn a flag but you wont kill a country that way or demoralize a nation, these are just symbols of thoughts and thoughts (rightly or wrongly) live in people’s minds.
Idiots.
Says Dove World Outreach Centre:
What is homosexuality? Detestable, indecent, wicked, offensive, perverted, shameful, unnatural, degrading, impure, futile, foolish, godless, dishonorable, a lie.
We protest sexual perversion because the Bible protests it. Family, community and national leaders should also protest it, stay away from it, flee from it. What is acceptable to today’s leadership becomes acceptable to tomorrow’s society. We, as Christians, will fight for the truth of the Word of God. When Jesus came, he no longer supported the death penalty for these sins, but the wickedness of the acts remain wicked and a serious problem for society.
They also have quotes from “Exodus” that supposedly supports their beliefs.
Like I said before, Idiots.
http://www.doveworld.org/
Thank you Bruno. Don’t hold much hope that it will change anything, but a nicely worded letter of protest would at least make me feel better. Thank you for the link.
I find all of this hysterical offence amusing. The book doesn’t deserve any respect and neither do the idiots that want to burn it.
Top hit on Google for “Quran Women Opression ” gave me these gems:
IV/34: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other.. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them.
IV/15: If any one of your women is guilty of lewdness …confine them until death claims them.
I can’t condone the burning of any book, but I think the Quran would be top of the list if I did, closely followed by the Bible.
It seems to me, too, that the so-called extremists are just those that take their holy book a bit more literally than the ‘moderates’. Which begs the question, if you are going be a moderate and pick and choose the bits from your holy book, how do you decide which bits to choose?
Woollenmillie: I have no idea about Islamophiles — I find the religion as silly as any other (well, slightly sillier as it’s monotheistic), but I maintain that it’s impolite and inefficient (in terms of convincing anyone of your point) to burn a book that many people hold dear. And as far as tu quoque goes, I really do think that people in glass houses have no business throwing stones — and these Christians are quite clearly in such a glass house, as they revere a similar book themselves.
As far as senses of humour go, I have no idea whether your joke was bad or whether I just didn’t catch it. I admit that being autistic doesn’t do wonders for one’s ability to spot sarcasm. Smilies are helpful in that regard — I wish more people would indicate their jocular remarks with them.
Stublore,
It’s amazing how many people lack not only a basic lack of knowledge of both biology and English.
For the record, islam is NOT a race,
Perfectly true. But a lot of people (not just obvious BNP/EDL) have learned to say Islam when they mean Paki. I’m sure none of them are here, but when anti-Islam comments have that slightly hystercal edge and assert the unique evil of Islam then a racist agenda is often to be found lurking underneath. It’s often a stalking horse.
As for book burning, well as suggested above I re-cycle unwanted books. Making a point about burning a symbol or effigy of a hated group sends a pretty clear signal that this is what we want to do to them, if only we could.
A few years ago a village in Sussex burned in effigy a caravan labelled ‘Pikey’ with cut-outs of children at the windows, to a mixture of glee and dismay from the onlookers. Real caravans had been really torched locally. Does anyone see a parallel?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2003/nov/16/raceintheuk.uknews
LOL i find it funny how the two religions have so so sooooo much in common and yet they want to do things like this, its dam right disrespectful ! this is coming from a Sikh aswell !!! no respect for humanity..
* sigh the ugly world we live in !
This is sick and totally immoral, if they had any of the compassion they preach they would never do anything like this.
Stevie, Mike you are two of the most closed-minded, ignorant and downright stupid people I’ve ever met. you are judging an entire religion by one-off minority incidents? The majority of muslims are calm, nice people. The only difference between a muslim and a non-muslim is their beliefs. it does not make them violent or extremist people. The qu’ran is not an evil book, if you had the sense to actually bother reading a book before dismissing it you would realise it is full of not only peaceful and loving guides for life but also highly interesting scientific statements, including several that have only recently been discovered. If the scientists had bothered to read the book instead of using their ‘knowledge’ to try and disprove God maybe they would have made the beneficial discoveries that
it is full of not only peaceful and loving guides for life but also highly interesting scientific statements, including several that have only recently been discovered. If the scientists had bothered to read the book instead of using their ‘knowledge’ to try and disprove God maybe they would have made the beneficial discoveries that…
Actually, no. Seriously no. Really no. I’m familiar with the claims that there are scientific insights to be found, but they are spurious.
Melika,
These are not minority incidents. Talk to any Christian currently living in Egypt about the seemingly government-sanctioned oppression, violence and even murder they suffer at the hands of the muslim people there.
Just this year, 400,000 pigs in Egypt were slaughtered after the swine flu debacle. No pigs were infected, and yet the muslim government jumped on the chance to kill them all (all owned by Christians, of course).
I know of many Christian Egyptians having stories to tell of family and friends being brutally beaten, murdered, or having property stolen and the muslim government turns a blind eye and does nothing.
Wake up to yourself.
@melika
You’re right, the koran is not an evil book(books like any object is not in itself evil or good), but it is a book full of hate, barbarism, bullshit and misogyny.
If one takes it literally, and is totally obedient to it’s tenets and expectations, then by modern standards they are violent and extremist.
There is NOTHING in the koran which has only been discovered by science, I repeat NOTHING.
Perhaps you would care to tell us just what these alleged scientific discoveries are?
If you had bothered, like scientists to use your evolution given brain, then you would realise, both how ridiculous the claims in it are, and how foolish you sound.
@Don
By a lot of people, I assume you mean a lot of English people?
Why would an American, Chinese, French, Canadian, etc poster use such a code?
What exactly is this “slightly hysterical edge” of which you speak, could you provide some examples?
melika says:
“The only difference between a muslim and a non-muslim is their beliefs.”
Well, that’s a pretty life-defining difference, when their beliefs tell them that you should stone people to death for adultery.
“The qu’ran is not an evil book,”
Really? 4:89: Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them.
“If the scientists had bothered to read the book instead of using their ‘knowledge’ to try and disprove God….”
Love the quotes around ‘knowledge’. And you can’t disprove any god. The burden of proof is on the religious nuts who make up these fairy stories. Do you believe in the Easter bunny? No? Can you disprove his existence?
Melika: Scienctist would have to try to disprove God if they were looking to prove its existence. That’s how science works — you don’t just assume something you believe is true, you look for evidence to the contrary (or for alternate explanations of your own evidence). If you can’t disprove your own theory, then it might be true.
(For the record, I have yet to read any study that provided irrefutable evidence of the existence of any deity.)
I think there’s lots of scientists that have read religious tomes (and that’s apart from theologists
) — they just can’t take what’s in those books as ‘gospel’ truth without looking for proof to the contrary, which seems to upset believers.
Ahem. I should proofread more. That’s ‘scientists’, not ‘scienctist’, of course…
@Stublore,
You are correct. I did mean in the UK, I should have made that clear.
As for examples, not from this site.
hahahaha, love this. Now if only we can get christians and muslims to start burning each other(all the while leaving the rest of us alone) then we can have some real progress
I can’t believe you people think your comments are going to make one bit of a difference or that someone cares what you think.
Vox: And yet here you are, commenting on those comments. Irony incarnate.
Thanks Vox, it’s always nice when someone comments to let everyone know how pointless making comments is.
They do these stunts to insult our religion and are then SHOCKED as to why extremists target them. We have never insulted your religion then why do you insult ours?
Farhan: I understand the sentiment, but I think talking about ‘your religion’ on a blog where most posters are atheist is somewhat beside the point.
Also, over the ages, there’s been a lot of insulting back and forth between the three monotheistic sibling religions. I’m sure there’s as large a number of Christians who have never insulted Islam as there are Muslims who never insulted Christianity. Don’t let the wing nuts get under your skin.
Farhan said:
“They do these stunts to insult our religion and are then SHOCKED as to why extremists target them. We have never insulted your religion then why do you insult ours?”
And here we see the face of “moderate” Islam – never condemning the murderers that kill in the name of your religion; instead, it’s the fault of the victim, for daring to insult your religion. The same kind of disgusting victim blaming nonsense that tells women they must cover themselves in case the men around them cannot control themselves.
You don’t get respect for your religion by demanding it with threats of violence. And no, I for one am not shocked at all, merely disgusted at how the supporters of Islam behave – as usual.
“The same kind of disgusting victim blaming nonsense that tells women they must cover themselves in case the men around them cannot control themselves”
Joe, when was the last time you checked the rape stats in America?
“And here we see the face of “moderate” Islam – never condemning the murderers that kill in the name of your religion”
have you condemned the Native American Genocide led in the name of your religion? have you condemned the crusades against Muslims that have been carried out for centuries in the name of your religion?
remember: every human choice and every action has consequences, whether good or bad. we are all affected by the choices others make as well!
Raziel: Why do you assume Joe is Christian? Most posters here aren’t. I’m agnostic myself, and I know quite a few of the others are atheist. Arguments about ‘your religion’ don’t hold much sway when you haven’t ascertained that your target belongs to the religion you’re arguing against.
Also, rape is a violent attempt to gain power, not an act of insurmountable temptation. I have no problem with anyone covering their hair if they feel that a divine being wants them to do so, but blaming a woman’s rape on her outfit is ridiculous.
Joe: Why do you point to a random poster as ‘the face of moderate Islam’? I know quite a few Muslims that would disagree with the viewpoints of your ‘face’.
its shows their mental sickness. U see Rick Sanchez fucked Paster Terry Jones when asked “if muslims do the same devilish thig with Bible with same arguement how will u feel”.
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/07/29/florida.burn.quran.day/index.html#fbid=7eBuWx-O2t9&wom=false
This stupid paster not just hurting the feelings of muslims but causing serious shame for we christians. Such ill minded peoples must be hospitalized for mental treatment and better if we forget them there permanentlly.
Well, despite their apparent unhealthy obsessive pyromania, they need to include the Bible in said conflagration.
Best option is not to destroy the Quran but read it. Muslim keep the Quran in their heads.Why burning it
…Hypocrites
People, when will you wake up! its a sad time in the world when one, who suppose to be the leader of many people want to take such action. I am a Christians and wonder who are those so call leaders of the church? This is a perfect example of Evil, you claiming others are doing bad in the world but you are doing the very same things. Shame on you, Somebody need to stop that procession not in any violent way but speck to them and put some sense into the heads of these leaders. Our lord and savior did not die just for some but he die for all of us, we don’t have a clue how much he love all of humanity and how powerful is his love.
Fortune # 6Sep 7, 2010 7:22 PM IST
Now, what happen on sept 11, is a outright wrong and shameful action, but remember what Christ side vengeance is his, we do not have any authority to condemn a hold religion just for a few bad individuals that not acting in the faith teaching. Now catholic, Hindus ,muslins and other faith has people that belong to them, that’s doing wrong , NONE of us are prefect, all faith have murderer in jails abuser, rappers and all short of bad people doing bad thing with in our walls, but do that make the teaching within the FAITH wrong?? No. But because god say to LOVE ALL.
People, we as a human race really need to emancipate out mind, and stop letting other people think for us and using us a just little puns, that’s dispensable when they see it fitted.
I wonder how that praise would react if the muslin to burn up our holy bible, he might say that there are no good and that there are evil one that are doom to death. But take a look at your action sir. It’s the very same thing you are doing.
NOTE. Special apology to the Muslim people and community in the world, as a Christian, those small group of individual are not action on the behalf of the truth and all Christian and the teaching of love. We do not support such kind of action we as Christian think we all can live together in harmony.
Those individual are clearly losing there way and we need to pray for them so there too don’t become like those people that seeking to do evil things, just life in sept 11.
It a funny thing when i see people take everythign what there laeder say as the golden truth. let make the promiss that will emancipate our mind. its way too long, as ahuman race we cant think and see how the evel wearing all kind of cloths and with all tyope of titles by there names. we need to understand that evil is not in any dark coner biut its in the action of WE human beens and we need to short it out and stop it not with force but with LOVE, why love??? because we dont want to fall into the same hold that there are in. because christ die for even them and we dont want to offend our lord.
ONE LOVE. PEACE IN.
allah knows better the truth.playing with the holy book means the end of his silence..don’t forget!
Seriously?
Burning books is harmless. It’s FUNNY. If it offends people so much they’re going to start fire-bombing embassies then it’s THOSE people that have the real problem.
Fuck ‘holy’ books. Fuck Islamic etxremism.
Good luck to the book burners (even if they’re doing it for all the wrong reasons). I hope lots of people send them hate-mail (aka. encouragement) so they know what a huge audience they’ve got.
koran a BOOK ? nah its a fairy story BURN THE FUCKER ,if you want a real book get THE GOD DELUSION BY RICHARD DAWKINS
I’m replying rather late now, but I think this deserves a response nonetheless.
“Joe, when was the last time you checked the rape stats in America?”
And that’s exactly what I mean. The rape statistics may be less in countries under an Islamic theocratic tyranny. That doesn’t mean that the ends justify the means. Rape is the fault of the rapist, not the victim. To suggest otherwise is frankly disgusting and barbaric.
“have you condemned … etc.”
I’m not religious and I’m not American, so your argument is vacuous, but to clarify:
I condemn the Native American Genocide.
I condemn the crusades.
Will you do the right thing, now and condemn the extremists of your religion? Why is your ability to do the right thing predicated on someone else’s actions?