Comments on: Atheism’s aesthetic of enchantment http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2011/04/atheisms-aesthetic-enchantment/ The official Derren Brown Blog Tue, 21 Feb 2012 16:25:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: Don http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2011/04/atheisms-aesthetic-enchantment/#comment-92397 Don Sat, 03 Sep 2011 17:54:47 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=16083#comment-92397 Udaybhanu, Interesting perspective. But scientific laws lack agency. <i>N.B. Scientists will have a nervous break-down if some day they come to know that quantum laws are not eternal.</i> I seriously doubt that. More probably they will say, 'Wow, that's interesting. Let's figure out what questions to ask next. Can we get funding for this?' Science thrives on propositions being shown to be wrong. Demonstrate to a scientist that the proposition upon which they have built their career is wrong and they wil shake your hand. Demonstrate the same thing to a religious person and they will want you burned at the stake. Udaybhanu,

Interesting perspective. But scientific laws lack agency.

N.B. Scientists will have a nervous break-down if some day they come to know that quantum laws are not eternal.

I seriously doubt that. More probably they will say, ‘Wow, that’s interesting. Let’s figure out what questions to ask next. Can we get funding for this?’

Science thrives on propositions being shown to be wrong. Demonstrate to a scientist that the proposition upon which they have built their career is wrong and they wil shake your hand. Demonstrate the same thing to a religious person and they will want you burned at the stake.

]]> By: Udaybhanu Chitrakar http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2011/04/atheisms-aesthetic-enchantment/#comment-92379 Udaybhanu Chitrakar Fri, 02 Sep 2011 19:02:19 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=16083#comment-92379 Some people believe that there is a God who is eternal. Some people believe that there are eternal laws of science. In whichever way belief is defended, belief remains a belief. One belief-system (God) has been merely replaced by another belief-system (laws of science). A joke: In olden-golden days the saying was: When there was nothing, there was God. When there will be nothing again, there will still be God. But then came the scientists and changed everything. The above saying also changed to this: When there was nothing, there were quantum laws. When there will be nothing again, there will still be quantum laws. These quantum laws are spaceless, timeless, changeless, all-pervading, eternal, unborn, uncreated and immaterial. Only that these laws lack consciousness. In every other respect they are just like God. These quantum laws are spaceless, timeless and immaterial, because when there was no space, no time and no matter, there were still these quantum laws. (Alexander Vilenkin’s model) These quantum laws are all-pervading, because these laws act equally everywhere. These quantum laws are scientists' God. Amen. N.B. Scientists will have a nervous break-down if some day they come to know that quantum laws are not eternal. Some people believe that there is a God who is eternal. Some people believe that there are eternal laws of science.
In whichever way belief is defended, belief remains a belief.
One belief-system (God) has been merely replaced by another belief-system (laws of science).

A joke:

In olden-golden days the saying was: When there was nothing, there was God. When there will be nothing again, there will still be God.
But then came the scientists and changed everything. The above saying also changed to this: When there was nothing, there were quantum laws. When there will be nothing again, there will still be quantum laws.
These quantum laws are spaceless, timeless, changeless, all-pervading, eternal, unborn, uncreated and immaterial. Only that these laws lack consciousness. In every other respect they are just like God.
These quantum laws are spaceless, timeless and immaterial, because when there was no space, no time and no matter, there were still these quantum laws. (Alexander Vilenkin’s model)
These quantum laws are all-pervading, because these laws act equally everywhere.
These quantum laws are scientists’ God.
Amen.

N.B. Scientists will have a nervous break-down if some day they come to know that quantum laws are not eternal.

]]> By: johann 1 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2011/04/atheisms-aesthetic-enchantment/#comment-88863 johann 1 Mon, 20 Jun 2011 15:12:02 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=16083#comment-88863 The universe was enclosed by neurotronic flay and srinted mild costumes to ascetain the way but though the krinkles sellotape the artic meddling wind all above the corridors the weapons funly ling...over turbule rythms ..as low it were an in/g The universe was enclosed by neurotronic flay
and srinted mild costumes to ascetain the way
but though the krinkles sellotape the artic meddling wind
all above the corridors the weapons funly ling…over
turbule rythms ..as low it were an in/g

]]> By: Claire Khaw http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2011/04/atheisms-aesthetic-enchantment/#comment-85367 Claire Khaw Sat, 16 Apr 2011 05:50:38 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=16083#comment-85367 http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/661/ seems fair enough to me on the point of "There is no compulsion in belief." It is clearly an eternal rule as well ie that there should be no thoughtcrime legislation. Are you people even aware of how much thoughtcrime legislation there is in our so-called liberal society?? God is cheaper than CCTV and less intrusive than thoughtcrime laws. http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/661/ seems fair enough to me on the point of “There is no compulsion in belief.” It is clearly an eternal rule as well ie that there should be no thoughtcrime legislation.

Are you people even aware of how much thoughtcrime legislation there is in our so-called liberal society??

God is cheaper than CCTV and less intrusive than thoughtcrime laws.

]]> By: Berber Anna http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2011/04/atheisms-aesthetic-enchantment/#comment-85343 Berber Anna Fri, 15 Apr 2011 17:09:36 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=16083#comment-85343 Claire: No, I'm saying that it needs to be controlled by laws that can be updated by government, upheld by independant judges and enforced by police. You know, the trias politica. I think that's a much better idea than depending on people's belief in the stories and laws of an ancient people, that haven't been updated for centuries and don't work in this modern age. Claire: No, I’m saying that it needs to be controlled by laws that can be updated by government, upheld by independant judges and enforced by police. You know, the trias politica. I think that’s a much better idea than depending on people’s belief in the stories and laws of an ancient people, that haven’t been updated for centuries and don’t work in this modern age.

]]> By: Gavin http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2011/04/atheisms-aesthetic-enchantment/#comment-85322 Gavin Fri, 15 Apr 2011 12:54:59 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=16083#comment-85322 @Claire Khaw, it should not matter if the thief repents, cutting off someone’s’ hand is despicable in that situation. And do you really think an eternity in hell is fit punishment for not believing in a god? You made it look like as if it were much better than killing someone of unbelief. Yes an all powerful, all knowing entity is responsible for miscommunications, and no it does not have to affect free will. The god can know before a person is born what that person will do. Therefore god can just make sure they are not born, allowing someone who will not abuse a text for personal gain to be born. Society is a form of social control; the inclusion of a holy text over complicates matters and allows for evil to be done in its name. Such as burning and drowning innocent women and flying planes into buildings. I get the feeling that this is going no where and we are all just banging our heads against walls, if we can not agree to disagree (or at least agree that Claire is wrong ) I will invoke Godwin’s law and bring an end to this. I don’t want to, but I am sure we could all find better things to do with our precious time. @Claire Khaw, it should not matter if the thief repents, cutting off someone’s’ hand is despicable in that situation. And do you really think an eternity in hell is fit punishment for not believing in a god? You made it look like as if it were much better than killing someone of unbelief. Yes an all powerful, all knowing entity is responsible for miscommunications, and no it does not have to affect free will. The god can know before a person is born what that person will do. Therefore god can just make sure they are not born, allowing someone who will not abuse a text for personal gain to be born. Society is a form of social control; the inclusion of a holy text over complicates matters and allows for evil to be done in its name. Such as burning and drowning innocent women and flying planes into buildings. I get the feeling that this is going no where and we are all just banging our heads against walls, if we can not agree to disagree (or at least agree that Claire is wrong ) I will invoke Godwin’s law and bring an end to this. I don’t want to, but I am sure we could all find better things to do with our precious time.

]]> By: Claire Khaw http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2011/04/atheisms-aesthetic-enchantment/#comment-85289 Claire Khaw Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:07:05 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=16083#comment-85289 Are you saying, Berber Anna, that society does *not* need to be controlled?? Are you saying, Berber Anna, that society does *not* need to be controlled??

]]> By: Berber Anna http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2011/04/atheisms-aesthetic-enchantment/#comment-85263 Berber Anna Thu, 14 Apr 2011 18:37:37 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=16083#comment-85263 Claire, it made sense to eat fresh meat in an age before refrigeration (be it mutton, fish or shellfish). None of them go bad straight after the kill. I don't get the shellfish thing, but the pork thing is because trichinosis used to be fairly common in the Middle East. The menstruating women thing was not so much a break for the women, as it was a way for the temple to claim a tithe (in order to fulfill cleansing requirements after menses, a sacrifice had to be offered to the temple priests). My point was that these rules make no sense today, just as many religious rules -- simply because the commonly used religious tomes were written in times very different to our own. That's one of the reasons that I don't see religion as a proper way to control behaviour. It's old rules. Claire, it made sense to eat fresh meat in an age before refrigeration (be it mutton, fish or shellfish). None of them go bad straight after the kill. I don’t get the shellfish thing, but the pork thing is because trichinosis used to be fairly common in the Middle East. The menstruating women thing was not so much a break for the women, as it was a way for the temple to claim a tithe (in order to fulfill cleansing requirements after menses, a sacrifice had to be offered to the temple priests).
My point was that these rules make no sense today, just as many religious rules — simply because the commonly used religious tomes were written in times very different to our own. That’s one of the reasons that I don’t see religion as a proper way to control behaviour. It’s old rules.

]]> By: Claire Khaw http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2011/04/atheisms-aesthetic-enchantment/#comment-85240 Claire Khaw Thu, 14 Apr 2011 13:16:04 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=16083#comment-85240 Don, even the Supreme Being cannot do anything about our Free Will to either follow his instructions or ignore them. You seem not to understand that we have no right to expect perfection in *this* life and are using the fact that we suffer injustice as a reason not to believe in God. If God made us do everything as He says, then there would be no need for him to sit in judgment on us, would there? No, these things are sent to try us. Berber Anna, it made sense not to eat pork and shellfish in an age before refrigeration. As for not having sex with menstruating women, I think it was to give them a monthly holiday. Don, even the Supreme Being cannot do anything about our Free Will to either follow his instructions or ignore them.

You seem not to understand that we have no right to expect perfection in *this* life and are using the fact that we suffer injustice as a reason not to believe in God.

If God made us do everything as He says, then there would be no need for him to sit in judgment on us, would there?

No, these things are sent to try us.

Berber Anna, it made sense not to eat pork and shellfish in an age before refrigeration. As for not having sex with menstruating women, I think it was to give them a monthly holiday.

]]> By: Don http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2011/04/atheisms-aesthetic-enchantment/#comment-85229 Don Thu, 14 Apr 2011 09:05:33 +0000 http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/?p=16083#comment-85229 <i>If you send instructions to someone, should you be blamed if your instructions were not read properly or were deliberately ignored?</i> If you are the omniscient Supreme Being giving the ultimate instructions for life, law and morality, then yes. If you send instructions to someone, should you be blamed if your instructions were not read properly or were deliberately ignored?

If you are the omniscient Supreme Being giving the ultimate instructions for life, law and morality, then yes.

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