Spotted this on the BBC News this morning:
In a land of faith and flag, Justin Griffith is challenging the US military to abandon its religious ties.
When Justin Griffith was a child growing up in Plano, Texas – a place he describes as the “oversized, goofy buckle on the Bible belt” – he would bring his bible to science class and debate his teachers on the finer points of evolution.
“In my head, I won every time,” says Mr Griffith, now 29.
But somewhere along the way, his penchant for picking ideological fights with the non-religious got him in trouble. He found it harder and harder to argue with the points they were making. At 13, he suffered a crisis of faith.
“It was so painful. I lost my religion before I lost my first girlfriend. Nothing that big had ever happened to me, and I didn’t have any coping skills,” he says.
Mr Griffith found peace with his atheism, but he is not done sparring with the opposite team.
As an active-duty sergeant in the US Army, he’s leading the charge to get atheists more respect in the armed forces. In the process he is earning attention, both positive and negative, from around the world.
You can, of course, read the full article here.
I was surprised to learn, from reading this article, that the US Army introduced a mandatory Spiritual Fitness Test last year. Any thoughts on that?
"
Very strange… Good to see Christians also think the spiritual fitness test is dangerous!!
Why does ANYBODY in the armed forces deserve respect? All they are doing is prolonging the satus quo of mindless fighting between made up countries and made up beliefs.
I think anyone dumb enough to want to join the army should be allowed, maybe we can increase the intelligence of our collective human gene pool if these people carry on killing eachother because of an invisible man in the sky or some shallow ideal.
This is not surprising given this is a country that wants to teach intelligent design in the classroom. I’m all for people having / following a faith if they so wish. But reality has to kick in somewhere and the realisation that perhaps we weren’t all born of adam n eve but evolved out of the soup.
Personally I am made from stars.
Paul
I had a lot of trouble due to my atheism whilst in the UK Armed Forces.
“Does ANYBODY in the armed forces deserve respect?”
In my opinion yes. They do a difficult job under extreme circumstances. When I left school my options were limited and I was young. The military offered me a trade and paid me. I personally never joined to fight made up countries and made up beliefs. I never wanted to kill anyone for an invisible man in the sky or shallow ideal. I never fired a single shot, even in Iraq, in my 7 years. I never had a choice about going to Iraq, (I didn’t want to). If I thought it was politically and morally wrong it made no difference.
I am no longer in the Armed Forces. I’m an Electronics Technician who is going through the application process to work at CERN. I hope people don’t think I’m dumb enough to be wiped out of the gene pool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7CmLLcoFYE
This is a genuine problem. I’ll personally throw out a shout of support to anyone trying to help it.
*edit-I never had a choice about going to Iraq, (I didn’t want to).
Should read I didn’t want to go not I didn’t want a choice. Apologies.
“In my head, I won every time,” says Mr Griffith, now 29.”
I think the same goes with all people who argue pro-religion.
I guess he would fall into the ” not so suggestible” category.
Also – religion doesn’t kill people, people with guns with religion kill people.
I think everyone is entitled to their own beliefs… but it should never be forced on them… We are who we are weather we believe in god or chose not too.
Jack, you live under the delusion of privilege. Those soldiers stand between you and those who would hurt you, or force their ideology on you. Whilst I wish we could avoid war, and live in a global, borderless society, it’s impractical to the point of impossibility; and I’m not stupid enough to think that getting rid of our armed forces will cause others to do the same.
Accidents of history may be what built our institutions and conventions, but those accidents don’t just disappear because we don’t like the consequences we’ve been left with.
the army chaplain’s manual lists dozens of religions, including several variations of satanism. atheism prolly isnt in it because chaplains really arent concerned with atheist practices. it’s the fact that the military instituted a test which is disturbing.
In stressful situations do you play or meditate … I bloody well hope not! There’s a war going on!
Are the wars just, or necessary, …, can’t comment, don’t know. (But would love it if somehow they stopped happening).
Do the people fighting them want war, probably not, hopefully not.
US is too far gone for me to get my head around, as much as I wouldn’t recommend jumping on the David Icke bandwagon I have to give him credit for the term repeaters.
He talks about people as repeaters, they just repeat what everyone around them is saying, I mean to some extent you have to, a lot of things people do work, but paradoxically that doesn’t mean they are nice things to do, or even particularly constructive.
If the US army had a religious requirement we would have a 21st century jihad, mad!
My bad, Christians and Muslims have different gods, lol its so crazy.
Spiritual Fitness Test? – pah! I’m entering the Ironholyman contest this year. I can lift our vicar above my head.
(really enjoyed your book by the way – cleverly told and very entertaining – informative too)
Is crazy how religion spread the message of the one in power. a couple of years ago one of my christian friend use to tell me what was going on in his church. He told me once that one of their priests went to washington to visit president Bush and that Bush told him that the war wasn’t really an arm war, it was more of a spiritual war and we can say that they believe it. I guess people are easy manipulated when they have something to do with what they believe. is like Seneca says “Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”
http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org have been fighting a losing battle against this kind of insanity.
@Magician in Edinburgh: I believe he was referring to his earlier phase where he WAS arguing the pro-religion side against his science teachers.
I agree that any sort of religious mandate, requirement, test, or coercion has absolutely no place in our military. I’m okay with counselors trained in religious observation and methods to be available to soldiers as needed as their day-to-day situation is incredibly stressful and if a soldier is able to cope best by relying upon his religious beliefs, then support them in that manner – no matter how delusional I might think it is.
I think all Atheists should join the army…………..I could think of no better career for them.
@ Soi no one is responsible, everyone could be, but who really chooses to do so, just cheating one another within various social groups, best personal example to date, I was cleaning the streets, a 6 year old passes me and astutely works out that I am a street cleaner, he then tugs at his mum to explain that I have missed a bit, he comes to me and says I have missed a bit, there was a cigarette butt lying on the ground, he was right.
The mum looked slightly apologetic, I went back a couple of metres and picked up the cigarette butt, and thanked them both. Its obvious when your 6, my job was street cleaner, leaving rubbish on the floor doesn’t make sense, there is no rational reason to ignore it, or give up. If only we remained so accepting of responsibility by the time we reach adulthood
(The kid was being responsible for me), how does that relate to the american Christian’s ripping off tax money for the sake of sheer indulgence and club jollies. How does that relate to ripping off my privileged position and making the life I lead me centred … what’s unacceptable in others is simply unacceptable, and the moral, the 6 year old (on second thoughts probably around 7 or
knew it to the extent he would take responsibility for me on an outing with his mum.
Wanting people to be better just because it makes more sense, no agenda, …, instead what a weird game we have for a life … <3 …
8 ) becomes
*
Why can’t people accept “each to their own” and just get on with life? Religion doesn’t define a person, it just influences them, and what does it matter what people believe? People should have the freedom of choice. After all, it doesn’t, or at least shouldn’t, affect anyone else’s life.
Training going well – just bench-pressed five cardinals
Jack, I think that is a very cruel thing to say. Just let those dumb enough to fight kill one another? These are daughters, sons, sisters, brothers. These are human beings with feelings just like yours. And it’s not armies that instigate wars, it’s leaders. I do think we should strive for minimal defense forces (enough to protect ourselves and help protect others, but not enough to attack others at the same time), but we should never wish harm on those who are currently in the military. It’s fine to disagree with militarism, it’s fine to argue your point and maybe convince people not to join the military, but it’s wrong to wish death and suffering upon others.
Sorry Daniel, but if you didn’t want to go to Iraq, then you shouldn’t have signed up.
By joining the Army you sign an oath of allegiance to whichever government happens to be in power at the time, and agree that they can send you where the hell they like, for whatever reason.
It’s no good complaining once you’re in.
From where I stand (or sit slumped over my desk on another cold Monday morning avoiding doing any work), prescribing religion as part of a military ethic is so bombastic the US may as well have invited the Templars to join the battle.
Pitting one religion against another rather than freedom (democracy) against tyranny (fundamentalism) removes the possibility of any rational conclusion. Removing religion removes any intangible excuse for intervention (i.e. in the name of God) and encourages rationality of choice whilst getting rid of eliminating the protection the fallacy religion has offered for thousands of years. Religion negates responsibility and creates divides – and suggests that Christianity is somewhat superior to Islam, which of course it isn’t (equally pointless). Rant over.
“In my head, I won every time,” says Mr Griffith
a) I’ve never personally experienced it, but I know it exists.
b) I know that if I haven’t personally experienced something, it does not exist.
Spot the common denominator.
You may have uploaded an alternative rendition of reality Justin. But the operating system that you’re using, still has the same old bug in it.
I think they need yearly psychological testing… because half the men that I have met that were in the army left scarred or damaged … Too bad they do not make the mental factors of war just as important as the physical ones. I guess we would not have many soldiers if we did that…
Ah-hah-hah-hah-haaa!
The silly monkey people think that they live in a ‘free’ society governed by ‘democracy’.
Ha-hah-aha-hah-haaa…
@elsie, atheists do accept religious people up to the extent of they can do what they do, what Soi pointed out in his video by the young turks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7CmLLcoFYE is the american religious spend a big chunk of tax payers money exclusively for the benefit of the religious without consent of the tax payer, the young turk points out that had this money been spent on a mosque there would of been no acceptance of the unjustified use of the money.
Its not just religion The young turk (in this case Jenk) points out lots of dodgy dealings and policies within politics and mainly american politics. Includes private prisons profiting, but there’s plenty.
Who gives a shit? Why would anyone who doesn’t believe in God want to waste the only life they have killing and pillaging at the behest of powerful interests? Being an atheist myself, I can’t understand how one can destroy their own life – and those of others. Shouldn’t we be trying to make this one world and one life that we have count?