FILMING TODAY
Today we’re filming with Daniel Kish, an extraordinary teacher of ‘echolocation’ for blind people. Completely blind himself, here he is riding a bike. He’s able to ‘see’ his environment by making tongue-clicks and then interpreting the return of the sound. I’ve just been walking around an estate with him, and listened to him describe the environment in detail, even buildings a hundred yards away. He plays laser-tag, rides bikes and skateboards, ice skates and plays basketball with his blind students. It’s an extraordinary ability. I can’t even get off a bike without falling over.
He is able to organize his world spatially, which is what he teaches: something the rest of us take for granted. But a lot of blind people organize temporally: objects are so many seconds away rather than spatially placed. Watching him trace the shape of a car with his hand, I was intrigued by the fact he had what sounded like a visual ‘space’ for the vehicle, but no visual representation to put in that space. His reply to this conundrum of how he populates his spatial world without visual objects was extraordinarily vivid. He drew a parallel with listening to a live orchestra, and that sense of a sound environment. The world, he explained, is a symphony of sound, but the objects in it do not make sound: they reflect it.
The world as a symphony of reflected sound. A beautiful and fascinating image for those of us who instinctively, wrongly presume that a blind person must be at a disadvantage.
Amazing morning.
X
I’ve read about him before. I think it’s pretty amazing that he managed to develop echolocation as a solution to the ‘problem’ of not being sighted. Shows how flexible the human mind can be. Fascinating!
Sounds like there’s a shred of bat DNA in the mix! If Christian Bale ever decides to hang up the cape, we know who to call…
I remember watching a documentary on Ben Underwood being taught echolocation by Daniel Kish. It followed Ben learning and advancing his techniques.
Fascinating stuff (and a very interesting documentary if anyone ever comes across it).
I love hearing things that I am aware of put in a way that makes me go back and re-evalute them.
“The world, he explained, is a symphony of sound, but the objects in it do not make sound: they reflect it.” I guess that most people’s idea of the world and the space within it is not too dissimilar, made up of light reflected off objects rather than any light that the objects themselves intrinsically produce. For us, our interpretation of the world is made up of what we process from the information received from our eyes. The idea of a world made up of using relflected sound rather than reflected light is fascinating.
Mr Kish sounds like a very interesting person and I look forward to the new show or shows with much anticipation.
Ian
Wow that´s an ability indeed!…we do take for granted alot of things and maybe therefore miss much also…to think of the world as complety°vibrational with every object in it as energy, is an utterly inspiring point of ´´view“…respect for mr Kish
Reminds me of the second chapter in Dawkins’ The Blind Watchmaker, where he speculates how bats actually visualize the world. Obviously they use echolocation, but they may very well use it to build an internal model of the world in a similar way to we do with our vision. They may even have their own equivalents of colours, but built from the information the get from their echolocation.
I’ve never considered the temporal aspect of that though, I guess as bats use much higher frequencies of sound and produce clicks hundreds of times a second it would be quite different to a man producing only a few clicks a second.
How cool. I have a friend who is completely blind. She said she could echolocate & I, being a nice supportive person, said “balls, let’s see you prove it,” so we walked down the street chatting continuously (I went blahblahblah to fill in the gaps) and then she told me how many cars we’d passed and where the lamp-posts were. I was walking on the kerb-side, she was negotiating the untrimmed hedges and listening to the echoes from our voices.
She is also the best person to ask for directions because she carries a map of the city in her head, and better than that, she actually knows how to walk to places using landmarks and street names. None of this “then you sort of go that way and somewhere there’s a thingy” that sighted people use…
I read that – Daniel Kish has begun work with Dr. Leslie Kay (a pioneer in ultrasonic sonar and inventor of the Sonic Guide) to develop a device to enhance sonic echolocation in blind people. This ultrasonic sonar technology could improve instructional strategies, and expand its availability to others.
It’s truly Amazing!
I never heard of this man. We had a boat here once in which you could sort of get a little bit from the world of the blind (total darkness in this boat, filled with a bar and that kind of stuff). Many years ago .. that got me thinking about it more than I did before, even though I did not go the boat myself.
I prefer seeing ofcourse, am indeed impressed what those who can’t see work it. Not all will be as good at echolocation unfortunately. Hearing problems etc.
Personalilty/character plays a role as well I think. And whether you were born blind or lost sight at a later atage in life .. makes an enormous difference.
Looking at the blind going through life scares the shit out of me at times .. and I am not even the one who is in their position ..
I don’t think they will ever see it as an advantage, although there are circumstances in which they do have advantage on us, the ones who see with their eyes. If you’re born blind you will not have any other experience, but you will be aware with time ofcourse, if you become blind due to an accident etc .. I’d prefer to be dead, but that is my personal opinion.
The fact that the brain and sense have the ability to adapt in several ways .. even more when you were born blind I guess .. we can only listen to their description indeed and try to imagine how they ‘see’.
Some give people the feeling that they are “psychic” … as some blind will check people a bit different .. although those signs they will pick up can give the wrong impression as well I guess.
I wonder what images they have in their mind .. echolacation leads to an image as well .. colours .. movements .. way different than our perception of the world indeed.. But as it is with all people … there will be many differences between the blind as well I guess.
What about dreams?
Instead of facial expression that triggers someone else (anger e.g.), it will the voice .. (or smell .. ). Relationships etc are very different when you are blind I guess (if you are into a relation ship with a seeing person e.g. .. the non verbal communication the blind don’t have).
Wouldn’t mind seeing the documentary Michelle mentions .. maybe I will come across it .. I’ll check.
Does make you wonder how much of this ability a sighted person could develop, if so inclined. And if that person could switch easily from one sense to the other.
interesting point @SSJ
This is so beautiful that I cannot even imagine it. I love the idea of calling the world the symphony of sounds. As a huge admirer of people’s voices I am fascinated with the way people sound instead of thinking about their physical appearance (and just to add a little vaseline here- Derren Brown has one of the most beautiful voices in the world). Daniel makes me being weirdly jealous of being blind-_-
Mr Kish sounds like one of those impressive people who truly make the most of what the world has to offer them. Suspect we all could learn something from him.
Coincidentally heard Ian Rankin interviewed on the radio in last couple of days about developments in Braille technology. It really made me evaluate how important my sense of sight is to me. Just imagine not being able to lose yourself in a good book…..
I am going to be looking at the world much differently after this post. Or, should I say, listening at the world much differently.
Derren, one of the things I’ve always admired about you is the way you draw inspiration for magic and mentalism from truly inspirational places such as this. I think that is the fine line that separates the magician-as-artist from the magician-as-guy-in-glitter-tuxedo-vest. Thanks!
Wow, I’ve never heard of this before (despite working with children that are blind and partially sighted). It sounds absolutely fascinating and I look forward to seeing this on whatever programme it is that you are producing.
Also, reading other peoples comments have given a few good names/links to read up on this – thanks.
xx
Interesting stuff! Look forward to the programme! x
Has this gentleman been blind since birth?
I’m always interested to know whether these abilities are developed, or should I say more developed, in those who have always been blind or who were blinded at a later date.
Also, what accommodations are made for Rover jumping out from the curb. I know with my reaction time I’d probably run him over, but how does this guy approach the situation.
I’d watch…but we Australian’s are a little behind with our Derren TV *grumble*
That is truely amazing!
While I am sighted and only colour blind (and even that only partially) I remember having an experience similar to echolocation while listening to a radio program where they had this jazz tumpeteer play the trumpet as he walked through a series of rooms, unlike when you record in a studio the echo’s were VERY apparent to the listener, and because he played the same basic tune over and over again, you stopped listening to the trumpet directly but rather how the room affected the music being played by the trumpet… so in essence you were listening to the room… and as he walked through you could visualize the rooms he was walking through simply from the sound. It was the one of the most mind blowing pieces I had ever heard or since heard… and its very much like this, a whole different way to think of the world around me… a skill that would be rather interesting to hone without having to be blind.
Read somewhere that the guy got his master degrees at the age of 15??
I like his work for sure and it’s good to read that they are working on technologies that will improve the skills mentioned, make them easier, as human capacity in this echolocation is limited, no matter how motivated or skilled you are in this area, there are borders to what people theirself can do.
It must be hard when your child of 3 asks you why he can’t see anymore all of a sudden (the kid with the retinal tumor).
Mr Kish himself apparently goes out into the mountains on his own now and then .. which is amazing ofcourse (and risky as it is always a bit more risky going somewhere on your own). They probably will like the “silence” their now and then, even more than sighted people.
Seeing is easier, takes up less energy, than getting around via echolocation, cane etc..
Mr Kish really sounds now and then as if all sighted people lack motivation etc .. LOL … oh yeah, I’m already arguing with him in a few areas. He sounds like a nice guy though. He really has made a difference, and makes a difference, for lots of blind people. If I’d been blind I’d for sure would want to be a student of him. As independent as possible .. And probably would not dislike being with other blind people quite often, next to the seeing ones.
I hope the technology will be there soon!
wow that sounds incredibly amazing stuff!!
What a brilliant man – one for the “fantasy dinner party” guest list I think 🙂
P.S. – Always makes me smile when DB posts – there are always atleast 20 replies, poor Phillis barely registers 1 sometimes. Don’t you feel sorry for him when he clearly puts so much time and effort into finding genuinely fab material for the blog? Perfectly natural I spose – this is afterall a blog which in general will attract DB fans 🙂
Kish has a amazing talent. but i wonder if derren asked him how he knows where the braille signs are located, or in a train toilet alone finding the soap and toilet flushes. If yall read the book Tricks of The Mind you know what im talking about (“A list of fish”)
I don’t recall his name or where I saw it, 60 minutes or dateline one of those type of shows, but there is a kid in the U.S. who has this ability. Using clicks to find his way around, same thing can ride a bike etc.
Looks interesting.
A similar interesting story was on Finnish TV a week ago telling about a 90-year old 100 % blind Finn who’s building a summer cottage all by himself on a remote rocky hill. He’s building his house partly INTO the rock and it was just breathtaking to see how he’s drillng the holes for the dynamite by pure “feel” and then doing all the explosive work.
Another episode showed him going onto the lake with his boat for fishing… no clue how he knew in wich direction he had to row to get back to his cottage… amazing!
I’ve heard of Ben Underwood but not Daniel Kish – it’s fascinating and interesting to know the world can be perceived in so many different ways. Synesthesia is also an intriguing in that respect. Since leaving the UK I keep asking friends when you’re coming back to the TV – I shall have to get somebody to tape it for me.
Woah, thats so incredible. I feel like such a klutz, I can’t walk around the house without accidentally kicking bits of furniture that are obviously in the way of my foot.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing…
Wow, I heard about this guy, can’t wait to see the end results of your filming day.