Derren Discusses The Gameshow
If you head over to Channel 4’s website for the Experiments you will be able to see an exclusive interview in which Derren explains where the ideas behind the show came from.
Click the link below to view:
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/derren-brown/articles/derren-brown-on-channel-4
Darren you are amazing.
It’s interesting because I know that the laws of physics don’t always apply.
You have to understand that wat is there is only.there if you believe it’s there.
At first I thought there were no real consequences to the constant choosing by the audience of the more evil/ more entertaining option, but it’s just hit me that it was decided he would get abducted. It’s unlikely audience members would have decided that had they been on their own and personally accountable. Anonymity allowed for the choosing of the more entertaining, but incredibly evil, option. An option which had the potential to psychologically damage someone
I was ready to admonish you- i.e. this particular small piece of cyberspace- over the lack of real consequence to decisions (Chris could never have actually really been hurt), which would have made the experiment worthless. But actually you’ve just set out what you wanted to prove again, emphatically. You are a god.
Seriously disturbing, but brilliant!
Re SteviePUA, Derren said at de end dat Chris’ Mrs ad given him a shirt and made sure he wore it out….
Anyway, I think it was a good, insightful show of how people will react when they are anon or part of a large group. Similar-ish 2 the “Teacher & Learner” test thingie, where a person believed another was electrocuted slightly 4 gettin a question wrong, but after a wrong answer, up went the voltage!
All because there was a man in a white coat telling them 2 do it, most (I think! )
Pressed wrong button! Sorry….
Most of them went 2 really high voltages, even while they cud hear sounds of pain n begging from the next room, some even gave a lethal shock…. Obviously, fella weren’t really hooked up 2 mains, but jus because a fella in a white coat was telling them 2 do it, gave them a way 2 push de guilt off by sayin “I was jus doin what he said/ordered!”
Same with game show, part of an anon crowd will start with little things bcos they wud av seen it as a joke, even because it was on tv, sum mite av thought, well nothing can really go wrong
Sorry 4 de double post!
Derren is the Geezer!
I always hate and love Derren in equal measures. I don’t like being lied to although I know that’s what magicians do. I didnt believe chris wasn’t an actor. I didn’t believe the audience votes were counted. I think the shouts for smashing the tv etc were from production crew, as we’re the first few people to remove the masks. The laugjing when bad things happened was hard to believe. I cant see how people thought it was funny. However the audience reaction at the end was fantastic. And real. And did prove Milgram etc for some of them.
Very good show! Very disturbing insight, yes there might have been continuity errors but I’m not sure that detracted from it hugely. The whole point of an individual hiding in the crowd ethos and feeling they can make increasingly negative choices on another’s life was an interesting look into what thought patterns probably under pinned the recent riots and such.
@ StevePUA : Derren explained about the shirt in that they bought them and got Chris’ girlfriend to give him the one he was wearing.
This was told to us on the film. They bought two identical shirts before the show and his girlfriend got him to wear one before he went out.
I wonder if the woman laughing in the background (in the clip linked in the post) thinks it’s ridiculous that being kind raised your level of happiness, or if that was just a coincidence 😉
Are those in the audience allowed to comment on this thread?
@ SteviePUA Derren said that they’d given his girlfriend an identical shirt and she made sure he wore it that night.
I was quite critical of the show up to the point of smashing the TV and the choice between £10,000 and the kidnapping. Before then there were no lasting negative implications of the decisions – he wasn’t really being arrested or loosing his job. But to support a decision to smash his TV or decide not to give him the prize money was cruel and I think made the intended point.
I thought that this was not up to Derren’s normal brilliant standard. As well as demonstrating a phenomena that is really quite obvious ( I think), the major part of the show was just like watching a crap game show. Normally Derren’s programs have surprising revelations all the way through, this one had none. Nobody can really have been surprised at the answers given.
All other works have been great – looking forward to the next two shows. 🙂
Brilliant show and I hope it wakes up a few people who are so quick to arm chair moralise that they would never act in the way that the crowd did. The point of the show was to show that with a little loss of identity and a little bit of a push from a charismatic leader (as Derren did an amazing job of doing) we are all capable of becoming vicious and vindictive towards others we are made to believe deserve victimisation.
To the message above, if you actually listened to what DB said at the end of the show you’d know that Chris’ girlfriend gave him the shirt and made sure he wore it for his night out. Same shirt was given to the stuntman. Not difficult really. Sounds like you’re trying too hard to pick holes.
Stevie, that’s explained in the show itself. Derren tells the audience that they got two of those shirts, and had Kris’ live-in girlfriend (who was in on the whole thing — she was also the one who gave them the keys to their flat) give one to him and get him to wear it that day. The stuntman wore the other one.
Anyone else find the audience reaction to someone apparently being killed rather odd,not only this week but last week too when Stephen Fry was ” shot ” ? Not a single person screamed or tried to get away as you might when someone is brandishing a gun. Instead,there was only complete silence. Seemed strange to me.
he gave a shirt to kris’ girlfriend who then gave it to kris to wear that night
First show of Derren I didn’t like. It was entertaining but not clever at all and missed the point. I’m sure the people would have voted the same way if they were alone in a room and without the masks. It is not surprising that people would like to make Chris angry after he told proudly how he cheated on his girlfriend. That’s absolutely ok. Nobody of the people would have voted for a car accident or would harm him seriously (like it happended in the Milgram experiments). This was not a very good demonstration of deindividuation and it was way too overdramatized.
Great show, loved the audience reaction. Looking forward to the next 2 shows. See you in Leeds next feb
I think the problems with this show were:
1. It was too easy to fix. Derren could have announced any percentage figures he liked to guide the decisions in any direction.
2. It’s pretty obvious that under those circumstances people would choose the worse of the two options each time. They trusted the production company to keep the victim safe, therefore knew they had freedom to ‘play’ within certain lines.
3. Derren didn’t do any tricks! The first part of the show was close to a classic Derren mind-bending feat, but for the rest of the show he simply read out a script, which Ant and Dec could have done.
4. The classic Tricks of the Mind, Mind Control stuff left us thinking Derren was either a real mind reader or an amazing con man. These last few shows don’t pose the same question.
Stevie,
The shirt is explained at the end. They bought two identical shirts and arranged for Chris’s girlfriend to give him one and make sure he wore it on the night.
PUA?
I cried at the end of this episode and found it extremely uncomfortable to watch. I’m confused as to why a clip showing Derren’s ability to predict the letter chosen on an imaginary coin was used. This was not to do with deindividuation so I very much hope that this skill was used during the game show. As a psychology student I understand that this is unlikely, but the fact that such cruelty is possible so easily is a hard concept to accept. This was a very sad episode, but insightful, thankyou.
It was great though i though it was a bit mean to tell him he was fired (and for that matter destroy his property)…
However great show as always.
CAN’T WAIT UNTIL THE NEXT ‘EXPERIMENT’
but until then i will keep watching the repeats and see if i can work out exactly how you did it.
Great pair of legs in the shop.
Fantastic show Derren, one of my favourites actually. It was really interesting to read people’s tweets at the same time too!
Irvin Staub showed that whenever someone commits a cruel or kind act it is much easier the next time to commit an act in the same vein, and greater in magnitude. For the kindness continuum, reference Schlindler. For the cruelty continuum, see every genocide past, present and future. By setting Chris up before the crowd as a bit of a cad, Derren threw the balance toward punishment as the first choice, making it easier and easier for the “faceless crowd” to choose further and crueler acts. I do hope Derren and co. provided sufficient corrective aftercare to the crowd. For those who want further information on this phenomena, don’t look to Milgram. Instead, look to Irvin Staub, specifically “The Roots of Evil: The Origins of Genocide and Other Group Violence.”
StevePUA he told his girlfriend to give him a shirt for her boyfriend, and that he wore it. So they brought an identical one too.
Good show, but you sort of did make the bad things sound better, but it just goes to show with a little bit of influence humans are not nice.
the reason the shirt was the same was because his girlfriens had two and gave one for him to wear that night (she was in on it).
Derren you always manage to suprise everyone at the end even when we think we’re in on it.
Well done
kt
Stevie….Did you miss the part where he said his girlfriend had been instructed to get him to wear the shirt?
Says it clearly at the end, when that scene is being explained, sir!
I was lucky enough to also be at the The Assassin one, nothing was set-up there, it was shocking but equally insightful!
I get the priciple of deindividuation and that of mob rule. But I don’t think this showed the mob element. At least not a pressure to conform. All anyone had to do was press a button so the pressure to conform was not there. I suppose anyone could have chosen not to participate further and left or protested as a rebuke to the rest of the audience but apparently none did.
I would be interested to know if this was filmed before or after the riots in August. I could be wrong but those seemed to demonstrate the dangers of deindividuation?
Brilliant!!!!!
I don’t think the greatest lesson was learnt by the people choosing the negative options. There were obviously a lot of people choosing the positive actions and hopefully they will go a way recognising that they didn’t do anything to stop it. Lots of people shouting out – smash the tele etc. Why did no one (and there will have been some who were thinking ‘don’t smash the tele’) shout NO?
I thoroughly enjoyed ‘The Gameshow’ on Friday.
You never fail to amaze us Mr. Brown! However, what we saw on Friday night was shameful.
Of course, everyone enjoyed the programme, but to see all the choices that they made, and even cheered about… well, it’s saddening, like you said at the end.
If this intrigued you take a look at ‘The Lucifer Effect’ by Philip Zimbardo. Though many of us might think ‘Not me, I’d behave within my moral code’, evidence suggests that given the expectation/justification and a level of anonymity/uniform to hide behind this base behaviour is in all of us in the right situation. Scary!
And as an afterthought ‘Evil is done when good people do nothing!’
@Tom says: Why did no one (and there will have been some who were thinking ‘don’t smash the tele’) shout NO?
Some of us did shout ‘No!’, Tom and that’s one thing I feel let this episode down – sorry guys – there should have been a fraction more balance in the editing. It was very uncomfortable to be an audience member on this episode. It was all pretty mild at first and – aware we were the experiment – I played along at first, choosing the boyfriend to cause a scene etc. But when things began to escalate – the guy losing his job etc – then the joke stopped for me. And I actually could not believe the baying that went on – for real – to smash up his TV and I had to shout no. At a filming break, I wanted to get up and go to the loo so that I wouldn’t be allowed back in as I was hating it.
But it was still a valuable experience – it was right before the riots and could not have been more timely. It made me consider my mouthier tweets, my quick judgements, how easy it is to be scornful. Yes, we knew ultimately nothing bad would have happened – but if I were being chased I’d have run for my life and maybe that car accident would have been for real? A weird experience to be part of that audience and none of us really deserves the Twitter comments from some – which are bullying. People weren’t there to experience our experience and it is easy to judge. Nevertheless Derren gave us all much food for thought that evening and hopefully has done the same for the viewers. This wasn’t a ‘scientific’ experiment and Derren is an entertainer – bear that in mind – but it was valuable.
Derren,
I really enjoyed ‘Gameshow’ and was facinated by the principles at play. However, I was rather hoping for more discussion and exposure of these principles as you did for example in ‘Miracles for Sale’.
Also. on a wider note. we all know and love your powers of misdirection. I loved Svengali and still enjoy Devil’s Picturebook. Do you have any plans for TV specials along these lines? I would really like this but maybe I’m in the minority.
Derren,
I just watched your show from Friday. I am a huge fan of yours but I am not sure I can face watching the next two shows in this series. I know the whole point of the programme was to prove good people did bad things under certain circumstances, but this was unbelieveable. I hate to think I would have had different thoughts going through my head had I been in the studio rather than at home. His friend from work seemed to know it had gone too far when she made the second phone call, do you think that’s because she wasn’t part of the ‘mob’ or because she was a particularly good person? As of the second decision things got quite dark, but when people were shouting to smash the TV it became very chilling.
I hope I’m never in a real position to find out how I would act.
Very sad.
I watched the show twsice – congratulations to the producers. It is uncomfortable and painful to see the truth of onself when someone holds a mirror in front of you – but its a healthy experience, I could not believe the level of sadistic enjoyment and anticipation that was present as soon as the audience felt secure in their anonymity. It is, however, the same kind of audience who delights in the daytime rantings of the Jeremy Kyle type of shows, in the gorey life footage of war coverage, or in the perceived increasing level of public violence. The show and the reaction of the mob also showed that feelings like empathy, humanity and the desire to help rather than to harm are quite rare commodities nowadays. On the positive side, those who watched have hopefully learned a valuable lesson.
@JayKay Thank you I was kind of wondering about that, if and how much the audiences reactions had been edited. You don’t really need stooges, or at least not many of them, when you can edit things pretty much as you like.
I am concerned Derren seems to becoming the Jamie Oliver of magic, trying to teach us moral lessons – or, indeed, tell us off – about our potential “bad behaviour”. And I am increasingly uncomfortable with his public devaluation of human beings’ moral autonomy. Context is everything. Choices were made by the studio audience based on the fact that they knew the person was always going to be safe. Once “reality” kicked in, people found they had to make different moral choices. Such is life. Derren is very close to the argument that those who – for example – take part in political violence are not making autonomous moral choices but are being carried away by circumstances. Fear of the mob is an old-fashioned elitist viewpoint increasingly shared by the rest of us. I’m disappointed, Mr B.
Watched this and was disbelieving of the figures who chose the negative option, I don’t think having a mask on takes away any of the identity or responsibility. Yet in the ending many looked or acted guilty (and interestingly started placing the blame on t he crew for something -they- had done)
so not sure how genuine but pretty memorable tv all the same. Had a very complex dream last night in which I figured out how Derren did one of his tricks…
How I would have done the “trick”?
There was no “live situation” The audience are watching a pre-recorded replay.
DB is simply acting and running through a pre-written script.
The tech dept have the ability to add a few seconds of “filler” footage on-the fly should there need to be a delay.
The audience are asked to vote – not at all. They press buttons, but this has no effect as there is a predetermined film sequence being played.
This allows all the interesting scenarios to be carefully controlled. What happens if the subject “victim” fought and suddenly punched an actor?
Then Ch4 would be dragged over the coals with legal problems.
So the whole situation was planned, pre-filmed and manageged very carefully.
Everything was methodically pre-planned. The ones being duped, the TV viewers
Even just the collective gasp from all the guys in the audience when the Xbox is hit as a result of a bad swing from the baseball bat make the entire show worth watching.
You can arrest, frame, fire and humiliate someone, you can even destroy his TV, but don’t ever, EVER mess with a mans saved game data.
I watched the beginning last night because I missed the first 5 mins before …..
The audience were mainly under 50yrs
Suggestions in the preamble:
1) Game show .. Biggy..suggests controlled environment & a programme override responsibility as safety mechanism.
Pressure to be part of making an interesting & entertaining game show..which is why I think they went for smashing up his home.
I also don’t think the audience really believed Chris wasn’t an actor.
2) Background on Chris given to audience .. Cheated on girlfriend .. women payback;
prank – enters room naked after night out on booze .. women & men payback;
Kickboxing .. male jealousy payback & women thinking he could handle the negative trials.
3) I think we want to see how others deal with a negative situation to learn from it.
The end of the show was fascinating in the time delay of not knowing if Chris was ok ….. I think it said more about popular belief that a game show would not deliberately, really hurt anybody & the possibility that a mistake could lead to real harm rather than that they were personally responsble but had played a part in it.
I think the Game show episode last night was excellent viewing, but too much emphasis was put on people wearing masks to protect their identity as the reason behind their voting.
I honestly believe that if the audience would not have had these masks, the voting outcome would have still been the same.
Human nature is always to provide cause and affect and given an option between good and bad scenarios bad will always be selected as people like to revel in others discomfort.
I love Derren’s work and try to figure out how some of the stuff is done.
His ‘live audience’ shows, filmed in theatres are better, IMO.
All through this programme, I thought that Kris was an actor – and It wouldn’t matter if he was, as it was the audience who were the subjects of the experiment, not Kris.
Kris’ colleague seemed too OTT before and after making the phone call (actress, I thought)
However, it was the bit towards the end that made me chuckle
“Kris came home to find a brand new telly to replace the one we smashed up”
How did they know for sure that his telly would be smashed up – without perhaps the production crew shouting ‘smash it’ or was it thought that by having a bat near the TV was enough for the audience to shout this?
Again, How did they know it’d B there
Am I really the only person who could see where this was headed from the start?! From the very beginning it made me feel physically sick. Surely there are other people out there who would not have followed with the majority? To see on twitter people making posts about how ‘hilarious’ and ‘funny’ this show was really makes me worry about some of the idiots we have in this world. Some people have likened to this laughing at someone falling over, it is NOTHING like that. The lack of empathy is truly astonishing, and quite frankly disgusting.
Thought it was a brilliant show.
The way it came across to me was how the dynamics of the “faceless” audience changed throughout the show. It wasn’t so much the choices that were being made, to be fair the evil choice was always going to be a given as it was pretty obvious that it was a set up and Kris would always have been OK.
But from the moment the producer was in Kirs’ apartment, that’s when the audience started to change, from the subtle comments about swapping his alphabetised DVD collection (I’m the same, that would have really wound me up), the looking thorugh his bedside draw (the only sacred haven for a mans stuff), smashing his personal property, to eventually being chased by the kidnappers, the audince got more and more vocal and more and more agressive.