Derren Discusses The Gameshow
If you head over to Channel 4’s website for the Experiments you will be able to see an exclusive interview in which Derren explains where the ideas behind the show came from.
Click the link below to view:
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/derren-brown/articles/derren-brown-on-channel-4
@Ash To give them their due, the editing isn’t far off at all. Yes, I think there should have been a bit more balance in showing some obvious discomfort that was in the room, but actually I was quite horrified by the shouting of the audience to smash up his TV etc. It was quite mental in the studio at times and the editing, on the whole, gives a pretty good picture of the experience. I actually felt there was something wrong with me that I couldn’t relax and just ‘go with it’ and I found myself trying to clap and smile so as not to be the only one in the row with a face like fudge. I never thought I’d ever want to walk out of a Derren experience – I was so glad to be out of there that night – I felt pretty mixed up, even though I’d guessed right away that we were the subjects. C/TND
C/TND But nevertheless, it is an experience – and one which has given me food for thought – and has done many others by the looks of it. I don’t think Derren’s preaching at all – we forget he is a showman. He’s merely holding a mirror up…
I wonder. They seemed prepared to smash a telly. A replacement was all ready and waiting. Who in the crowd shouted to smash the telly?
Aristotle said that virtue was fulfilling our goal, of becoming good people. None of us want to be part of the mob, we all understand its darkness. Most of us were either bullies or bullied. What fascinates me is the question, what sort of man wants to lead such a mob?
Derren is a great educator, and that seems to be the tacit justification for much of his work. Yet watching this I thought I saw something else. I thought I glimpsed a bully. A man who will do ever so much to the small person in order to elevate his own standing.
I hope I am mistaken; but this episode cut that distinction very close.
I loved the first episode of “The Experiments”, so I was very excited for “The Gameshow”.
A couple of comments – Derren mentioned in “Derren Brown discusses The Gameshow” that he wasn’t sure if it would “work” at all, if the people would devolve into a malign collective or keep to basic civility.
I feel that the setup of a TV show isn’t a proper way to test these assumptions (which I believe are real, sadly). Derren, at some point (smashed TV), practically whipped the audience into excitement. Maybe that’s just my impression, and – fair point – even anonymous mobs usually have some kind of hierarchy. But I just felt it didn’t show that “anonymous crowds” devolve into nasty behaviour on principle, without being led.
Another thing: I wish you had shown the percentages of the vote.
Interesting, however because the audience were voting with key pads they were voting independantly. The only one leading the group was derren himself at first by protraying Kris as a cocky cheat. It was only when they started to say about smashing the tv that the mob thing came into play. Like i said interesting. Would love to see Derren do what he does best and perform some of the effects he does on stage.
This was disturbingly realistic – please Derren, don’t ever sell your soul and agree to host some cheap, nasty and exploitative tv gameshow! This actually made me feel quite uncomfortable watching the audience delight in having this perceived power. Well done – point very clearly made.
I thought this was one of Derrens weaker shows.
Though the audience were cruel surely this was offset by the fact that they knew that none of their decisions would have any long term effect. Telling the poor bloke he was losing his job was on the level of a practical joke considering it wasn’t actually going to happen.
Very intriguing episode on a number of fronts; but given that it is possible to induce a crowd to become a mob, have any experiments been done the other way to reduce a mob back into an ‘orderly’ crowd?
derren, you were overly suggestive and omissive during this show and most definitely influenced audience behaviour but ultimately free will was not removed…being let in on the trick, i found the whole show cringeworthy, knowing that if I didn’t know the objective I would have been in the majority of the studio audience, for that alone, it was a great show, not many tv shows allow you to think outside the box if you’ll excuse the pun.
I swear that every audience member that walked out after the filming of ‘Remote Control’ was like: “Well I for one voted A all the time”, “Yeah I didn’t even cheer when they smashed his telly”
When the man says ‘Lick his sheets?!’, it cuts to the audience where everyone is laughing apart from two girls who are just sat there which shows that not everyone was happy with what was happening and didn’t feel pressured to join in.
I am not usually prone to hyperbole, but The Gameshow was, quite simply, fantastic. The reaction of the audience when the mark was hit by a car was a water-cooler moment, and it will stay with me for a long time. I hope this series and background interviews are released on DVD. Well done Mr Brown, well done.
JayKay: I noticed some audience members not clapping, and shaking their heads, from the very first choice (and more as the thing went on). A guy in a yellow shirt was the first to be shown not applauding, was that you? And I think I did notice a few shouts of ‘no’ in the background noise, but the ‘smash it’ was much louder. Is that editing, or was that really the case?
Sorry, I thought this was disappointing too, quite uncomfortable to watch the baying crowd. We know this much from Zimbardo so it would have been more meaningful if we had seen the votes; DB could have been making them up. And I bet a gender breakdown of the votes would not have reflected generously on the female side of the audience – leading the baying for blood, first to retreat when it suddenly went wrong! I hope the victim was an actor too, no need for him not to be but I’m not sure it was said that this was so.
There have been comments it was not scientific… i don’t think it needs to be, films aren’t scientific but they do tell us things about ourselves and how humans behave.
It tells us all something very very deeply profound, it may make us think about our own individuality and morals, how we ourselves can avoid having ‘crowd’ mentality forced upon us.
I think it SHOULD be extremely valuable to each and everyone of us… whether people thought it was “disappointing” compared to derren’s other stuff or “unscientific” its getting a vital message to the populous… thats vital and something TV doesn’t do to societies advantage anymore.
My sincere thank you!
Derren generalised too much in saying that everyone is capable of becoming a destructive member of a mob. It was obvious that there were many in the audience who were horribly uncomfortable. There are different types of people – some will glory in the opportunity to victimise, some are sheep who follow the crowd, some feel uncomfortable but too nervous to speak out, while a few will stand up for what they think is right.
A German lady I know had two wonderful cousins who did not like what they were being asked to do by the Nazis. They stood up for what they believed in, even though they knew their objections would end in their execution.
@Kalle I can ensure you, I was in the audience and I feared your comment would happen, that is why I am feeling so bad about this believe me. I can say hand on my heart tell you that I voted for A for all apart from the first one which I am totally ashamed of myself for. I think the voting got messed up at one point too and got my A’s and B’s mixed up too. (not sure if that was intential?) I too was shouting no and my hands were over my mouth when the guys belongings were being trashed. Remember though we were there to see Derren and my excitement was for that nothing else..And when the double got run over you can actually hear my shout ‘Oh f_ck’ at the end. However I do actually think about what I tweet etc now so I guess I have learnt my lesson. I wouldn’t dream of being nasty to anyone
Those who are saying ‘Derren overly influenced the audiences decision’ are clearly missing the point, because that IS the point.
Outstanding TV and a superb psychological experiment. Given the recent behaviour of seemingly ‘upstanding’ members of society during the riots, this is particularly interesting. I found watching the show uncomfortable from the start of the live audience part, and repeatedly hoped that I would behave differently if I were ever in a similar situation. It reminded me of reading ‘Lord of the Flies’ as a child! I think that many people may not have quite ‘got’ the point of this, and would have liked to have seen some of the audience interviewed after the event. I found The Assassin particularly disturbing too, for entirely different reasons.
Keep up the excellent work please Derren!
Very uncomfortable to watch for me. If the bit in the bar had happened were I live , it would have turned into a mass brawl, punches would have been thrown. I certainly wouldn’t have stayed there, it would have put me off the rest of the evening, and I’d have gone home. I couldn’t help but think that the victim was in on it anyway, he was just too calm with the things that were happening to him. He lost his job, he was like, oh well.
Mark I think what you’ve missed is that the bloke was carefully chosen (as is always the case) to ensure that he would be someone to react in said way. They would never have done the experiment with someone who was likely to walk out. Plus, you’ve got to remember that his mates were in on it to help guide him!
The use of masks to “deinviduate” the crowd was pure showmanship. No one else would ever know which choice each audience member made. There is no connection between the choice made by the individuals and what happened to the subject of the gameshow. The audience members would never be responsible for their choices. Never be called to account for it. Anonymous but part of a crowd where the nasty choices were more and more acceptable. A herd mentality and indirect group pressure. The audience could have been sitting at home with their mobile phones or tv remotes making the same choices. The result and ultimate responsibility for what happened would be the same but we would have lost the entertaining and edifying shots of the audience after the accident and after the explanation.
Have to say I found this episode a bit boring. Don’t get me wrong he’s very talented and comes across very well on TV, but I didn’t really engage with this episode. That said no one entertains as much as Devil Derren.
@Berber Anna The TV bit was for real. That’s when I was at my least comfortable and that’s saying something, as I was uncomfortable lots. The TV bit thing was my absolute cut off point. I was shocked by the shouting. But the thing is, we all knew it was Derren, so nothing that bad was gonna happen… It was such a strange confusing mixture of ‘I know what they’re doing to us. Do I know what they’re doing? Is this a real game show? Nah, Idiot, we’re an experiment. Oh, here comes the camera, smile and laugh so as not to be the only one not enjoying it. Die quietly inside wondering if there’s something wrong with you that you can’t join in. Hate yourself. Hate Derren. Be relieved you got out. Go home wondering wtf you just lived through. Try to forget about it…’ And I don’t hate Derren.
@Berber Anna It was a lesson. I do curb my Twitter comments more now. But I’m still a bitch. I think about it a lot more now though – but I guess that’s worse as it’s malice aforethought. Feck it, I’m only human. I rescue midges from drowning in the bog, I guess that’s my redeeming quality.
I’m just wondering who the producer guy was that smashed the tv? I can’t remember his name
Derren Brown: Game Show… For that to reveal anything about the audience you would have to use an actor for the subject, make the audience truly anonymous, and make them think everything they’re choosing is having a real and permanent effect on the subject’s life. Seeing as they all know it’s a game show and has no real lasting effect, anyone who doesn’t go for the negative option is just boring… The twist at the end was cool though.
Everyone knows that when people’s possession’s get smashed as part of TV shows, that they always get replaced at the end… And everyone in the audience thought it was a game show. You have to make the audience think it’s not just a game, that it’s real… Therefore you need to use an actor as the subject. This is the only way to show what you were claiming to show.
The twist at the end was a good warning against un-thought-out pranks. There were several points in the genuine show, where if you had not chosen your subject so well, things could also have gone horribly wrong. Many people would’ve got physical.
Poor Kris, I am guessing he won’t have a girlfriend after she sees theh video of him confessing he cheated on her…That is if that was real, pretty weird of him in the first place to reveal something like that on camera. But then again people do strange things to get on TV.
@Catherine He is called Dave.. I didn’t like that bit, I just thought how I would feel if someone was looking around my house and trashing stuff. I was cringing inside. @JayKay I don’t hate Derren either x I just wish they hadn’t made us look so harsh on TV as we were monsters or something but I guess that was the point of the show. I am beginning to think it was a valueable experience and one that I will never forget for good and bad reasons! Judith x
There is a lot of discussion about shirts on here, which shows what a master of distraction Derren is.
We, as humans, will not move on until we stop laughing at people falling over.
Some of these comments really make me laugh in response to Mel who thinks the audience and Chris were all actors you are wrong I was in the audience and not one member of the audience had any idea of the nature of the filming only that it was Derren Brown’s new show. I have been angry to find that comments have been posted online attacking people who were in the audience even stooping so low as to say everyone in the audience is that bad a person they should not have a job to go, I find this laughable as anyone of us put in that situation would have acted the same and its also hypocritical as this programme is set up to show up the kind of people that are happy to hide behind there computers and insult people they don’t know for their entertainment. If you were shocked show did its job!
Also people seem to be forgetting it was all done to shock you this is the whole point but what we need to remember is that this was just a set up a TV show and i am glad I took part I realized pretty quickly that as a member of the audience I was the experiment but chose to continue as I have been a victim of internet bullying and I wanted people to watch the show and be shocked and disturbed and to stop and think before they go online and start being abusive. I was affected by this for real so to have people I don’t know catergorize me in the same way as people who really do put others through hell via bullying is disgusting, If your that offended by something don’t watch it if you watched it you made it your entertainment so complaining is somewhat hypocritical surely?
Leanne: I agree that it’s nasty of people to say that everyone in the audience is a bad person and shouldn’t have a job. However, I disagree that ‘everyone put in that situation would have acted the same’, as there have already been comments here from audience members that didn’t vote with the majority and protested the smashing of the TV. Clearly, even the people present didn’t all ‘act the same’. That does not make the others bad people, but it does mean that some reflection may have been in order for them (which I’m sure has happened afterwards).
Ayla: If I recall correctly, he said he cheated on his ‘then-girlfriend’ or a similar phrase. I don’t think the current girlfriend is the same person he was talking about.
I loved that episode, however I think another factor was the audience trusted the show to make sure an incident (The end scenario) wouldn’t happen. However, it was very good and the idea of deindividuation is frightening.
😀
@Judith I’d die if someone had a rummage round my place! Maybe I should live my life as if the production team might pop by at any minute and it’d be spankingly tidy? *runs upstairs to check last night’s pants aren’t half-in/half-out of the laundry bin* And I’m gonna tell you only once more, you are a lovely, lovely lady – so, pecker up, Wee One. x
@JayKay Hahaha that post made me laugh. Thank you I feel better with the lovely tweet/FB Derren posted earlier. You are lovely too 😀 . It was a interesting night and to make it just that extra little bit more interesting my train home was 3 hours delayed!! #Karma. Lols. X
In response to Berber Anne I did not select the negative option everytime but I do believe anyone put in that situation would have selected the negative outcome more oftern than selecting the postive outcome which was proven as if i remember rightly only about 5% of people selected postively each time. We did all act the same as im sure you would struggle to find one person who was there that didnt select the negative outcome atleast once. We all sat there we all watched we all clapped and all laughed if people were offended or upset at the levels the show was going to with smashing the TV etc they could have left and as far as I remember only one woman left right at the end of filming after the car crash scene. We all have it in us to behave like that it should make us all think!
@Leanne Ah, but that’s the thing – I don’t think it was at all easy to leave. I guess it depends where you were sitting, but I was tucked up at the far end and I’d have had to run in front of all the camera set-up. Even at the beginning, Jackie-no-bladder here nearly passed out with desperation before finding the guts to leave for a pee – and that was before filming kicked off. As you know, there were all sorts of pressures influencing our behaviour and that’s the point really – it was a confusing, herding experience. I, by no means, voted for the good outcome all the time – far from it – even though I had worked out what the show was about, I still pressed the naughty button lots. But, as with others around me, the latter stunts sobered us up and alarm bells were deffo ringing.
@Leanne Interesting to read the interview with Derren where he discusses the X Factor audition. It really has become gladiatorial and uncomfortable now and, instead of the show being a positive life-changer, it’s becoming about spectating pain; ripping out the throats of the deluded, deriding has-been winners that haven’t managed to deal with the stress of fame. I think it’s partially responsible for some of the stinking lowest-common-denominator attitudes in today’s society. And personally, I think it’s high time we had some Good Deed TV as it’s the glass nipple that has the most influence on people. Feed us nutritional fayre and we will be healthy sheeples. Feed us crap and we can only be what we absorb.
I just watched xfactor and usually would tweet/FB negative comments towards contestants but not tonight. Lesson learnt. X
This may have been said, I haven’t read through all the comments sorry. I think my reaction had I been in the audience may have been to go for the bad options because I would assume that a TV programme has many restrictions and a duty of care for participants and that actually nothing that bad could happen. In fact when I think about it, my friend and I got quite involved in the show and laughed along with everyone else. Although I had no control over the outcome of the voting that probably makes me as bad. Obviously on refection thats probably not a good thing….! Maybe people who are reacting negatively are trying to cover their own reaction?
I was part of the audience and i would be quite interested to find out if anyone else in the audience felt hypnotised. Im pretty sure apart from the first choice (accused of pinching the bum, which i thought would be quite funny until i realised how aggressive the boyfriend turned) i chose all the positive outcomes. I did however feel like i was under some sort of trance. Very weird experience.
Not sure if anyone’s commented this already but deindividuation as a theory was discredited decades ago. Since then crowd behaviour (including anti social crowd behaviour) has been explained using social identity theory, where there is a shift from personal to group identity, and the norms of that group are taken on by its members. That is what the gameshow provided evidence for as it was quite blatant the audience were meant to choose the “bad”, more entertaining choice and so they did. Obviously Derren knows this but it makes better TV to say the crowd lost their minds and acted aggressively. I love Derren but this one I didn’t enjoy as much. It seems a lot of people who watched this now believe in deindividuation, an incorrect view of crowds that may carry consequences
@Dave I felt as if I was watching myself it was very odd, don’t know how to describe any better :-/
I’ve only just caught the Gameshow episode, which made for uncomfortable but highly entertaining viewing (as ever). In one of those weird little coincidences that life throws up now and again, I’d just an hour earlier read this long and interesting article on the very subject of this show: deindividuation. (link below) I don’t know if it really has been discredited as Fi suggests in the above post but it certainly raises some issues and questions about our ability to think and act according to our own ethical / moral compass, and not be swayed by the potentially powerful influences of anonymity and the crowd.
Here is the article: http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/02/10/deindividuation/
Very insightful into the human psyche and a fascinating show .
Would be interesting to know..
1. What ratio of people in the audience voted each time, as I’m sure some audience members would have abstained. Was this a handful of people deciding, or the vast majority?
2. If given a third choice ‘C’ was offered to abstain from voting, how many would have chosen this option and how this would have affected the result?
Derren. All casino in the UK will love you forever! NIce latest show! You just earnt them a fortune. I hope they paid you well. Nice one!